Joey Graceffa Part 4

[GodWarrior]

Nice dress, Joe.

But seriously it really does look like a dress when he's showing it.

Totally agree.

I feel like he's borrowing from the disgusting Justin Bieber fashion:

Towards the end he said something like "this shirt is not my style but David made me buy it." Was he referring to David Camarena or some random fuckbuddy of his?

I wondered the same thing, but after some investigative journalism, I found this tweet:

[Trystan9656]

So I went to Urban Outfitters, J. Crew, and Topman's websites to find out how much he spent. It was incredibly easy to find the EXACT clothes Joey bought, and I calculated his shopping trip to equal $564 without tax. And that's assuming the online prices are the same as in-store. Kind of insulting to ask for $100,000 dollars from fans, then go spend a few hundred on clothes. Even more insulting that he filmed it and showed it on his channel. Sadly, his minions don't realize the hypocrisy.

[ludz]

I think it's ridiculous how Joey is asking for all this money saying he doesn't have enough on his own. Fair enough, but don't go showing us all these hundreds of dollars worth of clothes. I mean, I can pretty much guarantee that Joey isn't putting a dime of his own money into this project.

[MadmoiselleLayla]

Ok no if you're going to ask for $100.k from people who have less than you, you don't need to film a clothing haul. If he wasn't doing his kickstarter, than sure, I wouldn't complain at all. Seriously though-we all know that Joey isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

[cheekycharles]

I don't think joey ever said he was doing a kick starter because he didn't have enough money to finance the project on his own. He could finance his own web series but he has no incentive to do so. He would spend a lot of money and would get very little in return. By doing the kickstarter everyone wins. He gets paid to do a fun project and the fans get to feel good about helping. I don't care that he is asking his fans for money to fund a project. I just feel bad for those who donate because there is a 95% chance it will be a complete disaster/waste of money. We know joey can't act and I doubt he will be organized enough to make sure everyone gets the prize they deserve.

[FAKEBLOOD]

Between government loans and a bank line of credit (both used to fund my education), I am almost $80,000 in debt. It will take me 10-15 years—if not more—to clear an owing of this magnitude. This buffoon was able to obtain almost $100,000 in a matter of days by literally doing jack shit. This doesn't sit well with me. At all. And the fact that he's parading around, dropping $50 almost daily at Whole Foods, spending hundreds of dollars eating out weekly and going on $600 spending sprees, but manages to find the cojones to ask his fans for money? No. Just... no.

[bloodymarysmith]

Aside: With all due respect, I have been in complete agreement with the Joey Graceffa discussion, until I got to the blackface apologists. Instead of arguing the deep historical significance of blackface in Western culture, I am going to keep my statements to Joey: Everyone who says (1) Joey's blackface is "off-topic," or (2) Joey's blackface isn't racist because he doesn't know better, is actually doing Joey a disservice. On GG, we have rarely given Joey a pass to make statements borne out of ignorance (e.g. his ignorant/dangerous statements about catching AIDS on the prayer box, and his idiotic/untrue statements about nutrition, etc.). Similarly, ignorance does not preclude racism. Furthermore, Joey is not a racist, insofar that he does not overtly/deliberately discriminate. But to think this is the only "racism" is misguided. Joey was acting in ignorance of the historical significance of blackface, and I think we are allowed to take defence to his statements. Does he know what he is doing could be perceived as defensive? Almost certainly not. We're dealing with a dolt. But if someone with 1 million subscribers can't serve as a teachable moment, then there is never a right time to learn about one's flagrant ignorance, and we might as well give up on Joey altogether. Every time he says something stupid, we always chalk it up to his namesake ignorance. But at what point does ignorance become woeful?

Honestly, I wish there was a way to make sure he knew that he messed up. At best, he could admit he was wrong, do his best to apologize, and take down the video. At worst, he proves once and for all that he's not worth our time. He absolutely has a responsibility to act, and try his hardest to make it up to those who were hurt.

I don't want to turn this into a huge discussion like it was last time, but I wonder what can be done to bring this to his attention. If we can do anything, I think we have some responsibility as intelligent people to try to help the people he hurt.

Also, that tank top is hideous.

[Spankalicious]

100k is more than most people working full time jobs make in an entire year. I can't even wrap my head around the fact that Joey has acquired it off having a pretty face. Because, honestly, I feel like that's what all of his success boils down to.

Take comfort in the fact that vapid, shallow good looking people who get the world handed to them on a silver platter really hit the wall when they start aging. It ain't pretty. I eagerly anticipate the oncoming train wreck. *steeples fingers*

[Crushedhopesnddreams]

I don't think joey ever said he was doing a kick starter because he didn't have enough money to finance the project on his own. He could finance his own web series but he has no incentive to do so. He would spend a lot of money and would get very little in return. By doing the kickstarter everyone wins. He gets paid to do a fun project and the fans get to feel good about helping. I don't care that he is asking his fans for money to fund a project. I just feel bad for those who donate because there is a 95% chance it will be a complete disaster/waste of money. We know joey can't act and I doubt he will be organized enough to make sure everyone gets the prize they deserve.

No, he have said that I don't have enough money to make it. If you watch his trailer vid on kickstarter from (1:25), he have said it. Yet he spends 500 dollars on clothing, that instead could use for his project.

Joey just doesn't want to use his own money. Hypocrite.

[GodWarrior]

I don't think joey ever said he was doing a kick starter because he didn't have enough money to finance the project on his own. He could finance his own web series but he has no incentive to do so. He would spend a lot of money and would get very little in return. By doing the kickstarter everyone wins. He gets paid to do a fun project and the fans get to feel good about helping. I don't care that he is asking his fans for money to fund a project.

Therein lies the problem. If it were truly about "doing a fun project," then he can do what other YouTubers have done in the past, and fund his own project, get some production experience, post the video, and break even. The reason he doesn't do that -- and the fundamental reason that underlies most YouTubers' Kickstarter campaigns -- is that Joey is interested in profit. That's not inherently a bad thing, but nobody should fool themselves into thinking that Joey is fun-loving and altruistic. He is greedy and profit-driven, and everything is about furthering his own career, fame, success, money, and the perks (read: boy-toys) that come along the way.

A short appendix of all the thing wrong with Joey's Kickstarter campaign:

• 1. HE'S BASICALLY BEGGING.
  2. NO STRINGS ATTACHED.
  3. TEARS OF THE WEALTHY.
  4. CHEAP AND GREEDY.
  5. HAS SUCH ENTITLEMENT.
  6. HISTORY OF UNGRATEFULNESS.
  7. LAVISH SPENDING.
  8. AND THEN BRAGS ABOUT IT.

To elaborate:

• 1. Joey's Kickstarter is akin to begging. There's something money-grubbing about asking strangers for money.
  
  2. The money he's asking for is unconditional and unqualified. Let's be clear: He's asking for donations (no strings attached), rather than investments (which pay dividends). If it were a partnership he were asking for, or asking his fans to become investors, I think it would be rather noble and entrepreneurial. Instead, he begs.
  
  3. Begging is off-putting when the beggar is rich.
  
  4. In addition to being rich, Joey is paying zero dollars into his own project. This is problematic for so many reasons; namely, a rich person who acts selfishly comes across as greedy, cheap, hypocritical, and entitled.
  
  5. Elaborating on the last point, there's a sense of entitlement, wherein others should pay for his hopes and dreams. Again, this is compounded when the individual actually has the financial capacity to fund himself.
  
  6. Furthermore, Joey is unabashed and ungrateful. He has had a long history of ungratefulness; there is no reason to think that this Kickstarter will be any different. He feels like he's "owed" this opportunity.
  
  7. He lacks all tact. Joey rubs it in his viewers' faces, by spending money like some rich playboy, dropping half-a-K in "shopping hauls," amidst a begging campaign. He has $5,000 to go; yet he shamelessly spends $500.
  
  8. More to the point, not only does he spend this money, but then he has the audacity to upload a video bragging about said shopping. It's very uncouth to show-off, but to do so in the middle of a begging campaign is extremely crass, and unforgivable.

This, as I see it, is the problem with Joey's Kickstarter. While many of these problems are common to any YouTuber's Kickstarter, the way in which Joey acts (with impunity) is especially egregious.

Although most Kickstarter campaigns beg for money, only Joey does so with ungrateful entitlement, and shameless spending. Is he self-aware? No, but that is no excuse for being a bumbling fool.

[cheekycharles]

He is greedy and profit-driven, and everything is about furthering his own career, fame, success, money, and the perks (read: boy-toys) that come along the way.

Although most Kickstarter campaigns beg for money, only Joey does so with ungrateful entitlement, and shameless spending. Is he self-aware? No, but that is no excuse for being a bumbling fool.

I think we all agree that Joey has become insufferable. I am just more annoyed by the morons who are enabling him than Joey himself.

[Hippo]

What's even more sad than that, is that he spent all that money on those clothes, and he won't wear any of them. He wears the same pants and rotates about five tshirts every damn day.

[Kleineganz]

Well it looks like I'll be the one with the most unpopular opinion on this thread ...

1. Joey is not rich. Yes he's well off, and better off than a lot of people, but he's not rich.
2. He's not "begging" for the $100,000 so he can just scamper off with it and do shopping hauls. He's creating an entire web series with a group of other people. There will be a cast & crew to pay, plus equipment, venue rentals, etc.
3. I don't see how him going off to spend his money on clothes for himself has anything to do with the web series or it's funding.

I'm going to wait until I see how good (or bad) this series is before I make any judgement on his spending habits.

[Hippo]

I can't really blame someone for taking advantage of a victimless situation. Joey knew he could get the money with as little effort and responsibility as possible this way, so he did it. And I don't blame him. He's not being dishonest about where the money is going, so it's not like he's deceiving anyone. Is it a noble path? No, but it's the smart one, and less face it, who wants to live life like a Steinbeck protagonist?

That being said, the money spent on the clothes, and then making a video about it does disgust me. He really couldn't wait til the kickstarter was over for that? You can be ambitious, but you can't be obnoxious as well.

[JeniferLouise]

Well it looks like I'll be the one with the most unpopular opinion on this thread ...

1. Joey is not rich. Yes he's well off, and better off than a lot of people, but he's not rich.
2. He's not "begging" for the $100,000 so he can just scamper off with it and do shopping hauls. He's creating an entire web series with a group of other people. There will be a cast & crew to pay, plus equipment, venue rentals, etc.
3. I don't see how him going off to spend his money on clothes for himself has anything to do with the web series or it's funding.

I'm going to wait until I see how good (or bad) this series is before I make any judgement on his spending habits.

I actually agree with you.

Some people here seem to have trouble differentiating between joeys personal life and his job. This is probably bc he broadcasts a lot of his daily life to us.

He's asking for funding to create this show. Multi million dollars companies get grants for projects regularly. Zach braff did a kickstarter for his new movie. Several youtube stars have done these in the past. It wouldn't make fiscal sense for these people to sink thousands upon thousands of dollars of their own personal funds into these projects, because if they fail they're in huge financial trouble. If there are people willing to support him through this kickstarter I don't see anything wrong with it.

He also won't be getting the entire $100,000. Kickstarter takes a cut, and then I'm sure he budgeted the cost of sending out these prizes into the price of the pledge. After all is said and done he might only have around $70,000, or about $10,000 per episode. Someone said earlier, these people are pretty much paying an inflated price for their package to help support joey.

while posting a haul probably wasn't exactly tactful, you cants expect him to stop spending his personal money full stop. They're different pools of money. It would be like if you were pitching a project at work and had to ask for a specific budget to be approved. And in the meantime you didn't spend any of your personal money... That makes no sense!

[Guest]

Agreed. The Veronica Mars movie funded like 5 million dollars, even though everyone involved are millionaires.

[Teen Dream]

I like that after showing the world all the new clothes he bought he ended the video by basically saying "Oh, I know I was showing you clothes I just bought and most of you can't afford, but don't forget to give me your money." WTF!!! The nerve! The audacity!

[GodWarrior]

1. Those who defend Joey by saying "It's his money, he can do what he wants," or "How can he be expected to make such a large investment, should it fail?" or "There's a difference between professional money and personal money," and finally, "Lots of people do Kickstarters, including famous people," I will go one step further and argue that Zach Braff is equally off-putting in asking for money from random plebeians, despite being a Hollywood insider/celebrity/millionaire.

2. The key is to ask: How are regular movies/TV shows funded? Through producers and investment capital. And why do producers have a vested interest in creating movies and TV shows? Because, in return, they reap the rewards of their investment. My central problem with all Kickstarter campaigns is that YouTubers ask for donations with nothing in return. A normal movie pays A% to the actors, B% to the writers, C% to the crew, and the rest of it D% goes to the producers, because they took on the financial risk, and therefore they accrue the benefits and/or losses. I have nothing against profit-maximizing YouTubers, but I hate when they do it in such a way which is pseudo-dishonest, altruistic bullshit. "I just want to create something fun and cool," or "This is all for my viewers; not for me." That's such nonsense. It's all about profit. And short of that, it's at least partly about profit. The reasons that many YouTubers provide in their Kickstarter begging-pledges make me sick.

3. The truth of the matter is that YouTubers, and as some of you have pointed out, various Hollywood insiders are funding their professional projects through personal means, by asking for money from (what I would argue are) a large number of crowd-sourced producers. It's the entertainment-equivalent of an unpaid internship -- asking for labour or capital without any reciprocal agreement -- and asking people to become producers of a series, whilst keeping the entire profit for yourself. This is what's off-putting. Do people other than Joey do it? Yeah, there are a lot of shady characters in this world. "Donations, begging, unpaid investments." Call it what you will; it's still the same animal.

4. But in the end, the reason why I piped up with my distaste for Joey's Kickstarter is because of Joey's rampant eBragging, only shortly after he began eBegging. This lack of tact rubs me the wrong way. As I've said, it makes Joey seem greedy, entitled, and ungrateful -- on top of my distaste for Kickstarter.

[pie]

The problem with using examples like Veronica Mars and Zach Braff's project are essentially this: Veronica Mars ran for 3 seasons and Zach Braff is from Scrubs and has a long list of accolades to his name for the movie Garden State. People will sink their money into THOSE projects because they are somewhat aware of what quality they might be getting.

I'm pretty sure whoever funded the making of Veronica Mars the first time around, or the studio that backed Garden State for Zach Braff didn't beg random teenagers for their birthday money to fund their project.

[FlipFlops87]

Well, isn't Whitney Milam also involved in the production of the web series? She works in the movie business and somewhat has experience producing School of Thrones, which I didn't personally watch but have read about it on various GoT forums. Hopefully she can give him some guidance because I personally don't think Joey can pull this off himself.