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Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

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popmypopcorn
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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by popmypopcorn »

Flansy wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:12 am
popmypopcorn wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:22 am
Yeah, maybe small "friendly" events will be arranged after the pandemic, instead of big public ones. Who knows, we'll see.
Small events have been arranged before the pandemic and during. I'm sure they'll continue after. I'm sure you know this.

It's a common theme for people to join a group, make friends in the groups, and then splinter off and do their own thing. Some of it happens over hem critique and sometimes it's just more fun to do it with your pals.

What's a shame is when large events that are open to the public disappear because these are a good entry area for people to make those friends.

However, those large events need to be safe space for everyone to come and feel comfortable. It isn't right that an event can be comfortable for some and not for others and you just say "oh well you can't please everyone so let's just please ourselves."

Parts of the historical costuming community should be proud that they're actually trying to grow and develop in a way that's welcoming to everyone. It's going to take some effort and it will be uncomfortable for some as some were already too comfortable. That discomfort is growth and people in a hobby partially about education should consider welcoming growth.

Change also won't be easy and it won't be quick. However, if people truly care about these things it'll come out better in the end. Canceling an event during a pandemic to work for these goals really seems sensible to me. It's a good time to do it. Who knows where the world will be in a few months anyhow?

If you don't care about making historical costuming inclusive then go and have your own private "friendly" event. Don't stop others from doing the work.
Yes, that's how I meant big public events might go out of fashion for awhile, we all are aware small friendly circles existed. But I oppose, it's easier to find a small group with the same interest (in regard which level of accuracy one strives to achive, for men military reenacting groups, etc.) online and join, making the small steps to bound friendships, than appearing at a big public event all dressed up alone or with one friend, standing in the middle of a crowd of unfamiliar people infiltrating their activity, awkward! And the last line was really unnecessary, I don't stop anyone doing anything, I don't have the power, nor the will... (just please wash your hands afterwards) :D

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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by Lectrice »

popmypopcorn wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:33 am
Flansy wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:12 am


Small events have been arranged before the pandemic and during. I'm sure they'll continue after. I'm sure you know this.

It's a common theme for people to join a group, make friends in the groups, and then splinter off and do their own thing. Some of it happens over hem critique and sometimes it's just more fun to do it with your pals.

What's a shame is when large events that are open to the public disappear because these are a good entry area for people to make those friends.

However, those large events need to be safe space for everyone to come and feel comfortable. It isn't right that an event can be comfortable for some and not for others and you just say "oh well you can't please everyone so let's just please ourselves."

Parts of the historical costuming community should be proud that they're actually trying to grow and develop in a way that's welcoming to everyone. It's going to take some effort and it will be uncomfortable for some as some were already too comfortable. That discomfort is growth and people in a hobby partially about education should consider welcoming growth.

Change also won't be easy and it won't be quick. However, if people truly care about these things it'll come out better in the end. Canceling an event during a pandemic to work for these goals really seems sensible to me. It's a good time to do it. Who knows where the world will be in a few months anyhow?

If you don't care about making historical costuming inclusive then go and have your own private "friendly" event. Don't stop others from doing the work.
Yes, that's how I meant big public events might go out of fashion for awhile, we all are aware small friendly circles existed. But I oppose, it's easier to find a small group with the same interest (in regard which level of accuracy one strives to achive, for men military reenacting groups, etc.) online and join, making the small steps to bound friendships, than appearing at a big public event all dressed up alone or with one friend, standing in the middle of a crowd of unfamiliar people infiltrating their activity, awkward! And the last line was really unnecessary, I don't stop anyone doing anything, I don't have the power, nor the will... (just please wash your hands afterwards) :D
And yet... when some people do small group private events, they get blasted for being "elitist" and "not approachable" 😂
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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by LemonTwoSugars »

Linen_and_thread wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:37 pm
I couldn’t agree with you more. This last year has been awful for many people and these petty women on YouTube and Instagram only made it worse. They are bullies plain and simple hiding behind their computer screens. What happened to them to make them be so jealous and hateful that they have to destroy other peoples happiness. I keep seeing generalizations about feeling unsafe but have yet to see or read of any actual incident of racism. These women just twist words and name call. They evidently never out grew middle school.
Pray they find peace in their hearts and regret their actions.
Honestly, I think a lot of people in the HCC need to be Ricky Gervaised a good one, and maybe people will calm down on the cultural appropriation front (amongst others), because life is already difficult enough, I don't see the need to add to that.
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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by LadyViorica »

herewego2 wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:35 pm
LadyViorica wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:27 pm
It really seems like they're trying to stir drama at this point. And if they can't find it, they'll create it.
Especially since she knows lawsuits were never actually on the table. Why would she even word it like that and put the clarification on another slide if not to try to invoke a reaction? She's quickly becoming one of my least favorite creators.
Right?

"Help, help, I'm being repressed! I'm prostrate on my kitchen floor in tears because of how stressed this is making me!"

". . . nothing actually happened, though?"

*radio silence*
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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by stormpie »

LemonTwoSugars wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:24 am
Linen_and_thread wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:37 pm
I couldn’t agree with you more. This last year has been awful for many people and these petty women on YouTube and Instagram only made it worse. They are bullies plain and simple hiding behind their computer screens. What happened to them to make them be so jealous and hateful that they have to destroy other peoples happiness. I keep seeing generalizations about feeling unsafe but have yet to see or read of any actual incident of racism. These women just twist words and name call. They evidently never out grew middle school.
Pray they find peace in their hearts and regret their actions.
Honestly, I think a lot of people in the HCC need to be Ricky Gervaised a good one, and maybe people will calm down on the cultural appropriation front (amongst others), because life is already difficult enough, I don't see the need to add to that.
this is what happens when people get bored and lets face it this has been a boring 24 months.
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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by popmypopcorn »

stormpie wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:20 am
this is what happens when people get bored and lets face it this has been a boring 24 months.
IMHO boredom might add about 10% to the whole picture. We can't overlook the zeitgeist: increasing level of general intolerancy, entitlement, lack of humor, combined with immense sense of mission. I believe CallOutTube members are USA residents, and to quote the Dalai Lama: They're burdened with glorious purpuses.
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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by Cinamomo »

Not wanting to disturb the current topic, and l know sewstine isnt well liked by may of you, but what did you guys think of her and Rachel's new video?

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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by Notmycup »

Cinamomo wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:07 am
Not wanting to disturb the current topic, and l know sewstine isnt well liked by may of you, but what did you guys think of her and Rachel's new video?
Do you mean their separate videos? Because I wasn't aware they had a collab.

I love Rachel doing closet cosplay (then again, I love Rachel doing anything), it's one of my favorite types of her videos. I like how Sewstine turns characters' clothing into her everyday wear (or special occasion in this case). What I'm confused about is why she decided to go with navy blue if the dress was black in her head. I personally like navy blue more, but it was her dream dress she made for herself, not her audience. The end result is lovely though.

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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by Cinamomo »

Yeah, l meant their separate videos, though l would greatly enjoy a collab from them

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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by lanouk »

Anastasia is a favorite of mine, and I was excited to watch Sewstine's video! It was so different than her normal aesthetic, I think she did a great job with a challenging silhouette/structured minimalism, although I wonder if she regrets not having the front piece more structured with interfacing or a built-in corset (or whatever equivalent the 1950s shapewear would be) so that the front would hug her torso even more smoothly? I think that the look really worked for her once I saw her in the top knot, I think she should do more old world glamour couture-esque challenges like this. The aesthetic really works on her.

I really hope this starts a trend where every anastasia outfit gets done by different costubers...

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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by LadyViorica »

Cinamomo wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:07 am
Not wanting to disturb the current topic, and l know sewstine isnt well liked by may of you, but what did you guys think of her and Rachel's new video?
I liked them! If I was Sewstine, I would have picked a fabric where the blue popped more - I see the costume in the movie as more of a very deep blue-purple than navy. (And I love jewel tones in general, so I'm biased.) But it looked great.
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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by stormpie »

Flansy wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:12 am
popmypopcorn wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:22 am
Yeah, maybe small "friendly" events will be arranged after the pandemic, instead of big public ones. Who knows, we'll see.
Small events have been arranged before the pandemic and during. I'm sure they'll continue after. I'm sure you know this.

It's a common theme for people to join a group, make friends in the groups, and then splinter off and do their own thing. Some of it happens over hem critique and sometimes it's just more fun to do it with your pals.

What's a shame is when large events that are open to the public disappear because these are a good entry area for people to make those friends.

However, those large events need to be safe space for everyone to come and feel comfortable. It isn't right that an event can be comfortable for some and not for others and you just say "oh well you can't please everyone so let's just please ourselves."

Parts of the historical costuming community should be proud that they're actually trying to grow and develop in a way that's welcoming to everyone. It's going to take some effort and it will be uncomfortable for some as some were already too comfortable. That discomfort is growth and people in a hobby partially about education should consider welcoming growth.

Change also won't be easy and it won't be quick. However, if people truly care about these things it'll come out better in the end. Canceling an event during a pandemic to work for these goals really seems sensible to me. It's a good time to do it. Who knows where the world will be in a few months anyhow?

If you don't care about making historical costuming inclusive then go and have your own private "friendly" event. Don't stop others from doing the work.
I’m not American so our race politics are not the same, please don’t take this as an attack as I am asking with genuine interest, what has been going on at these big events that make them not inclusive? What changes are people challenging?
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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by Flansy »

stormpie wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:29 pm
I’m not American so our race politics are not the same, please don’t take this as an attack as I am asking with genuine interest, what has been going on at these big events that make them not inclusive? What changes are people challenging?
Sure, and thank you for asking so nicely. The Jane Austin event is still in the stages of gathering their information and listening to those that are brining them forth so, I cannot summarize that easily for you.

So, I'll write about an another large event because the issues they're having have become very public. There is a Dicken's Fair that happens every Christmas in San Francisco. It is a very large and long running event that is beloved by many including those that are now bringing to light issues that have been happening for years.

Here is a website that can detail the issues there better than I can summarize. They're right on the landing page.
https://blackatdickens.wixsite.com/load

Many people I know are boycotting the event as well as local costuming groups until these issues are addressed.

This event is an example of a large happening however it is causing smaller clubs and groups to exam their own events and policies to make sure there are not similar issues happening within. It's hard word because some people have belonged to these groups for years and have no interest in changing to make sure others feel safe and welcome. Making sure people are comfortable can run the gambit of making sure that the person who critiques someone's hem is told that their behavior is unwelcome all the way to ensuring racist behavior is condemned.

The issues are varied and no one event or organization can be the example for all but I hope this example can give you the idea of what some in the community are working to change.
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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by lanouk »

Flansy wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:21 pm
stormpie wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:29 pm
I’m not American so our race politics are not the same, please don’t take this as an attack as I am asking with genuine interest, what has been going on at these big events that make them not inclusive? What changes are people challenging?
Sure, and thank you for asking so nicely. The Jane Austin event is still in the stages of gathering their information and listening to those that are brining them forth so, I cannot summarize that easily for you.

So, I'll write about an another large event because the issues they're having have become very public. There is a Dicken's Fair that happens every Christmas in San Francisco. It is a very large and long running event that is beloved by many including those that are now bringing to light issues that have been happening for years.

Here is a website that can detail the issues there better than I can summarize. They're right on the landing page.
https://blackatdickens.wixsite.com/load

Many people I know are boycotting the event as well as local costuming groups until these issues are addressed.

This event is an example of a large happening however it is causing smaller clubs and groups to exam their own events and policies to make sure there are not similar issues happening within. It's hard word because some people have belonged to these groups for years and have no interest in changing to make sure others feel safe and welcome. Making sure people are comfortable can run the gambit of making sure that the person who critiques someone's hem is told that their behavior is unwelcome all the way to ensuring racist behavior is condemned.

The issues are varied and no one event or organization can be the example for all but I hope this example can give you the idea of what some in the community are working to change.
Thanks for providing this follow-up. I am struggling to understand this one piece here from their website:

Establish a clear policy that allows for non-traditional casting in regard to race, gender and ability for ALL ROLES.

This includes titular characters such as Mr. Scrooge, Little Dorrit, Father Christmas and historical figures such as Charles Dickens, royal children, Queen Victoria, etc.

This policy would be clear that historical BIPOC characters WILL NOT be played by anyone other than a person of their original ethnicity.
How does that 3rd line work with the first line where it says ALL ROLES? I think most of the requests are reasonable but the problems come with contradictions or confusing rules. I don't want to doxx myself here and it would be easy to because I am a mixed race person from an uncommon minority and I immediately question the idea that they are going to actually enforce a "original ethnicity" concept, and if they do, I immediately question the harm that would come from one group deciding that mixed race people like me aren't ________ enough for them. If an Ethiopian woman were to take on the role of a Black american from the 1800s that would technically go against their own school of thought here.

Sorry, I'm really not trying to derail the otherwise important point they are trying to achieve, but these are the details that make it hard to actually enact change when you are actually on the ground and doing the work to improve communities.
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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by Flansy »

lanouk wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:03 pm

Thanks for providing this follow-up. I am struggling to understand this one piece here from their website:

Establish a clear policy that allows for non-traditional casting in regard to race, gender and ability for ALL ROLES.

This includes titular characters such as Mr. Scrooge, Little Dorrit, Father Christmas and historical figures such as Charles Dickens, royal children, Queen Victoria, etc.

This policy would be clear that historical BIPOC characters WILL NOT be played by anyone other than a person of their original ethnicity.
How does that 3rd line work with the first line where it says ALL ROLES? I think most of the requests are reasonable but the problems come with contradictions or confusing rules. I don't want to doxx myself here and it would be easy to because I am a mixed race person from an uncommon minority and I immediately question the idea that they are going to actually enforce a "original ethnicity" concept, and if they do, I immediately question the harm that would come from one group deciding that mixed race people like me aren't ________ enough for them. If an Ethiopian woman were to take on the role of a Black american from the 1800s that would technically go against their own school of thought here.

Sorry, I'm really not trying to derail the otherwise important point they are trying to achieve, but these are the details that make it hard to actually enact change when you are actually on the ground and doing the work to improve communities.
I think in order to answer that question I would need to be at the table during the dialogues they want to have and I am not. So, I can't answer your question but only say that they have asked trained professionals to be hired and I would assume that those people would be part of the work being done so someone like you wouldn't have to come to the question you're having.
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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by LadyWhistleblower »

Flansy wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:39 pm
lanouk wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:03 pm

Thanks for providing this follow-up. I am struggling to understand this one piece here from their website:



How does that 3rd line work with the first line where it says ALL ROLES? I think most of the requests are reasonable but the problems come with contradictions or confusing rules. I don't want to doxx myself here and it would be easy to because I am a mixed race person from an uncommon minority and I immediately question the idea that they are going to actually enforce a "original ethnicity" concept, and if they do, I immediately question the harm that would come from one group deciding that mixed race people like me aren't ________ enough for them. If an Ethiopian woman were to take on the role of a Black american from the 1800s that would technically go against their own school of thought here.

Sorry, I'm really not trying to derail the otherwise important point they are trying to achieve, but these are the details that make it hard to actually enact change when you are actually on the ground and doing the work to improve communities.
I think in order to answer that question I would need to be at the table during the dialogues they want to have and I am not. So, I can't answer your question but only say that they have asked trained professionals to be hired and I would assume that those people would be part of the work being done so someone like you wouldn't have to come to the question you're having.
The company that puts on dickens was known for rarely presenting BIPOC historical figures at the forefront and when they did, they often whitewashed the roles and cast white actors in those roles (happened a lot with Indian historical figures, mainly) and rarely cast BIPOC actors in any major roles at all, even when changing the race of the character wouldn’t have been intrusive in anyway. There were a handful of BIPOC characters that were cast but those roles were outnumbered by the BIPOC actors auditioning for them, when in reality they could have expanded the number of BIPOC characters in general (because there were plenty of non-white people in Victorian London, many with high profile roles and jobs), but the company didn’t want to increase the cast size or get rid of existing roles to make room for more BIPOC characters. BIPOC actors that were cast in main character roles were almost always white passing, too. The current Prince Albert is Turkish (as in actually from Turkey, born and raised), for instance, but just looking at him, you would just think he’s a white guy. They passed on casting a girl who was Cuban American, I think, for the role of Victoria because she was basically not white enough, despite being a great actress who could have done well in the role.

Basically, if you were white or white passing, you had a much bigger shot at being cast in a main “character” role, even if the role may have actually been based on a BIPOC person, while BIPOC actors were very rarely cast in any major character roles regardless of the race or ethnicity of the character. So this was trying to address that.
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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by popmypopcorn »

Cinamomo wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:07 am
Not wanting to disturb the current topic, and l know sewstine isnt well liked by may of you, but what did you guys think of her and Rachel's new video?
Looks great on her and she seemed genuinly happy 'bout it. I'm looking forward of Satin's red ball dress, perhaps she'll construct the bodice better with a built-in corset. As for Rachel, I hope she has plans for the black Gilda dress! They could totally collab: ST in the red, RM in the black, even their hair is coordinating :D
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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by CuriousAboutThat »

heckin bamboozled wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:11 pm
LadyViorica wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:58 pm
Does anyone know why Miah Grace is talking about lawsuits in her Insta stories?
Delurking momentarily - there were no lawsuits. When the CosTube Guide on IG shut down, the callouttube folks that started the new guide wondered briefly if they could be sued for using the same format or whatever, and Miah basically whipped herself up into a panic thinking she was going to get sued (over a very basic IG format, seriously?) She even admits all that in another story, and then goes on to say she was “worried about being doxxed” because the former Guide owners had the old info spreadsheets, and the calloutttube people are still pushing the story that LLH was doxxed, even though she wasn’t.
Okay ... why was the CosTube guide shut down? I really liked that one, and I find the new guide rather ... insular and cliquish. Now I understand why I got the feeling. Makes me want to resurrect the guide in its original format.

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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by CuriousAboutThat »

lanouk wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:03 pm
Flansy wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:21 pm

Sure, and thank you for asking so nicely. The Jane Austin event is still in the stages of gathering their information and listening to those that are brining them forth so, I cannot summarize that easily for you.

So, I'll write about an another large event because the issues they're having have become very public. There is a Dicken's Fair that happens every Christmas in San Francisco. It is a very large and long running event that is beloved by many including those that are now bringing to light issues that have been happening for years.

Here is a website that can detail the issues there better than I can summarize. They're right on the landing page.
https://blackatdickens.wixsite.com/load

Many people I know are boycotting the event as well as local costuming groups until these issues are addressed.

This event is an example of a large happening however it is causing smaller clubs and groups to exam their own events and policies to make sure there are not similar issues happening within. It's hard word because some people have belonged to these groups for years and have no interest in changing to make sure others feel safe and welcome. Making sure people are comfortable can run the gambit of making sure that the person who critiques someone's hem is told that their behavior is unwelcome all the way to ensuring racist behavior is condemned.

The issues are varied and no one event or organization can be the example for all but I hope this example can give you the idea of what some in the community are working to change.
Thanks for providing this follow-up. I am struggling to understand this one piece here from their website:

Establish a clear policy that allows for non-traditional casting in regard to race, gender and ability for ALL ROLES.

This includes titular characters such as Mr. Scrooge, Little Dorrit, Father Christmas and historical figures such as Charles Dickens, royal children, Queen Victoria, etc.

This policy would be clear that historical BIPOC characters WILL NOT be played by anyone other than a person of their original ethnicity.
How does that 3rd line work with the first line where it says ALL ROLES? I think most of the requests are reasonable but the problems come with contradictions or confusing rules. I don't want to doxx myself here and it would be easy to because I am a mixed race person from an uncommon minority and I immediately question the idea that they are going to actually enforce a "original ethnicity" concept, and if they do, I immediately question the harm that would come from one group deciding that mixed race people like me aren't ________ enough for them. If an Ethiopian woman were to take on the role of a Black american from the 1800s that would technically go against their own school of thought here.

Sorry, I'm really not trying to derail the otherwise important point they are trying to achieve, but these are the details that make it hard to actually enact change when you are actually on the ground and doing the work to improve communities.
You ask a darn good question, and being as I come from a minority group and look at the long demand list, I can only shake my head. This would actually push me away from attending such an event.
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Re: Costuber/Costuming Community - Part 5

Post by popmypopcorn »

CuriousAboutThat wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:58 am
Okay ... why was the CosTube guide shut down? I really liked that one, and I find the new guide rather ... insular and cliquish. Now I understand why I got the feeling. Makes me want to resurrect the guide in its original format.
OK what even is a costube guide?
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