Authortube Part 4

[ForeverTBR]

I can't wait for Daniel Greene's book because in most cases, those who are vocally critical of other people's writing, usually write the WORST books. That coupled with the fact that he's using Meg as a guide... I can't help but wait with anticipation at this crap show. It's going to be epic.

[OneMoreMessyReader]

I can't wait for Daniel Greene's book because in most cases, those who are vocally critical of other people's writing, usually write the WORST books. That coupled with the fact that he's using Meg as a guide... I can't help but wait with anticipation at this crap show. It's going to be epic.

It also really doesn't help when they self publish. And I know people here self publish, i do not mean to mock it, belittle it, or call it lesser in anyway. It is not. I do think though it allows people to publish their earliest works that aren't ready yet and Daniel could go exactly down this route. And even that isn't a big deal when you don't have such a huge and public platform for everyone to witness. Courtney for example has gone on record admitting her earliest publish works aren't as good as her current. Yes she's proud of them, yes they helped bring her here, but she's unpublished them and has now decided not to publish them again because they don't speak to her current capabilities. And she published all of this earlier works off camera. Yes they were still in the public sphere, but it was from the angle of building an audience from nothing. Now we have public figures delivering a product to an already waiting audience. I think it makes the stakes higher and it becomes harder to erase or fix later.

That being said, even if it's bad, he'll probably still be successful. Meg still has success, so does Jenna. Public opinon of Sasha Alsbergs book and Christine Riccios book is that they're bad, but both were commercial successes with decent goodreads ratings. I still think he has the numbers to back it up even if the book is a flop. What I really want is a time machine to see these people in ten years - ate they still writing books? Are they getting better?

[ForeverTBR]

I can't wait for Daniel Greene's book because in most cases, those who are vocally critical of other people's writing, usually write the WORST books. That coupled with the fact that he's using Meg as a guide... I can't help but wait with anticipation at this crap show. It's going to be epic.

It also really doesn't help when they self publish. And I know people here self publish, i do not mean to mock it, belittle it, or call it lesser in anyway. It is not. I do think though it allows people to publish their earliest works that aren't ready yet and Daniel could go exactly down this route. And even that isn't a big deal when you don't have such a huge and public platform for everyone to witness. Courtney for example has gone on record admitting her earliest publish works aren't as good as her current. Yes she's proud of them, yes they helped bring her here, but she's unpublished them and has now decided not to publish them again because they don't speak to her current capabilities. And she published all of this earlier works off camera. Yes they were still in the public sphere, but it was from the angle of building an audience from nothing. Now we have public figures delivering a product to an already waiting audience. I think it makes the stakes higher and it becomes harder to erase or fix later.

That being said, even if it's bad, he'll probably still be successful. Meg still has success, so does Jenna. Public opinon of Sasha Alsbergs book and Christine Riccios book is that they're bad, but both were commercial successes with decent goodreads ratings. I still think he has the numbers to back it up even if the book is a flop. What I really want is a time machine to see these people in ten years - ate they still writing books? Are they getting better?

I 100% agree with you. The biggest issue with self-publishing is that it's too easy. Writers need room to grow their craft. No one should publish their first 5-ish books. And yes, that's a blanket statement that's not always true, but it true for the majority of people. You simply don't have the skillset yet for a wide audience.

What makes me cringe is, in his vlog he say things like (paraphrased), "It's the best I can make it for right now," and "I'd like to go through it again but I have to let things go and I have deadlines," and the worst of the worst, "it's a prequel to the books I want to write." There's so much going on with all those statements that spell DOOM I don't even want to start breaking it down because it gives me a headache just thinking about it.

It's sad that writers don't want to take time to allow themselves to grow. No one forgets the first book you publish. If it's crap, they won't come back. Take Courtney (as you used in your example), I DID read an early book of hers and it was HORRIBLE. So now I won't buy her new stuff and it's in a genre I read. Because I have a long memory and I know what she thought was publishable. I'm not going to waste my money again. So I'll never know if she really has improved.

[Justanotherreader99]

Do you think he’ll sell a lot of books because his platform is so large. I wonder if he even read Meg’s book. It’s way worse than Jenna’s.

[pensandthreads]

I can't wait for Daniel Greene's book because in most cases, those who are vocally critical of other people's writing, usually write the WORST books. That coupled with the fact that he's using Meg as a guide... I can't help but wait with anticipation at this crap show. It's going to be epic.

It also really doesn't help when they self publish. And I know people here self publish, i do not mean to mock it, belittle it, or call it lesser in anyway. It is not. I do think though it allows people to publish their earliest works that aren't ready yet and Daniel could go exactly down this route. And even that isn't a big deal when you don't have such a huge and public platform for everyone to witness. Courtney for example has gone on record admitting her earliest publish works aren't as good as her current. Yes she's proud of them, yes they helped bring her here, but she's unpublished them and has now decided not to publish them again because they don't speak to her current capabilities. And she published all of this earlier works off camera. Yes they were still in the public sphere, but it was from the angle of building an audience from nothing. Now we have public figures delivering a product to an already waiting audience. I think it makes the stakes higher and it becomes harder to erase or fix later.

That being said, even if it's bad, he'll probably still be successful. Meg still has success, so does Jenna. Public opinon of Sasha Alsbergs book and Christine Riccios book is that they're bad, but both were commercial successes with decent goodreads ratings. I still think he has the numbers to back it up even if the book is a flop. What I really want is a time machine to see these people in ten years - ate they still writing books? Are they getting better?

Yes this! Again it's not a disrespect to self-publishing. When I was in my early 20s and thinking when I finish this book you know... I do -think self-publishing is best route for me. Basically using Daniel's reasons (he'll get a bigger cut of money, he has more creative control...) There was a lot of discussion for it after a few writer's made it big which, a decade later, came boiled down to the same things he said. Looking back I'm so relieved I didn't go that route. The overall lacking of quality in self-publishing comes down to 2 things.

First is the lack of the gatekeeper. I know so many people like Meg La Torre ignore this and justify it with some bullshit that the market just wasn't ready for my super innovative and creative unicorn project (lol). Really though most books need to be vetoed because they're fundamentally bad. The hopeful writer can't write. She can spit out all the grammar rules and modern stylistic trends she wants... but if every everyother sentence on the first page is awkward and sprinkled with inappropriate diction, it's getting vetoed. Second is the author hiring out people, who are not depending on that work's success, to clean it up for them. I'm sure there are great editors out there working on self-published books. Many of them may have even come from traditional houses. The problem is so many of these self-published authors essentially expect to hand their book to a freelancer, pay them a few hundred dollars and come back with a beautifully polished and well written finished project. Yes there are different kinds of editors, but no one is going to sit there and rewrite their sentences throughout the entire book. Someone in traditional publishing may tell the author they need to rewrite entire parts. They may give them some advice and send it back to them to do the work and back and forth until it's done. If they get through the gatekeepers but there are problems in the prose they'll do more to hammer it out than anyone making a set fee from a self published author. I've seen defenders (aka fans and freinds) on 1* book reviews of book tubers saying 'you can't say this is bad, they're self-published. If they went traditionally published the would teach them how to write better" (lol what?). If it was so bad they wouldn't have taught them they just wouldn't have given them the time of day as it should be.

[pensandthreads]

What makes me cringe is, in his vlog he say things like (paraphrased), "It's the best I can make it for right now," and "I'd like to go through it again but I have to let things go and I have deadlines," and the worst of the worst, "it's a prequel to the books I want to write." There's so much going on with all those statements that spell DOOM I don't even want to start breaking it down because it gives me a headache just thinking about it.

It's sad that writers don't want to take time to allow themselves to grow.

I was shaking my head so hard at that. He just finished the first draft! He hasn't been slaving over it and making constant changes until it's "perfect." Not sure what deadlines he has other than the fact that he apparently preemptively hired famous audio narrators and cover artists and can't waste the slot. Maybe someone who had never written a book before you know.. should've waited until it was at least in the final stage of line edits?

Greene idolizes Sanderson. You think he would've taken a lesson out of his history. He had a dozen books in the backlog, some written a decade before publication that had to be redone from scratch (and that was with the work of editors who were investing in him not just taking a paycheck).

[somebodysomeone]

What makes me cringe is, in his vlog he say things like (paraphrased), "It's the best I can make it for right now," and "I'd like to go through it again but I have to let things go and I have deadlines," and the worst of the worst, "it's a prequel to the books I want to write." There's so much going on with all those statements that spell DOOM I don't even want to start breaking it down because it gives me a headache just thinking about it.

It's sad that writers don't want to take time to allow themselves to grow.

I was shaking my head so hard at that. He just finished the first draft! He hasn't been slaving over it and making constant changes until it's "perfect." Not sure what deadlines he has other than the fact that he apparently preemptively hired famous audio narrators and cover artists and can't waste the slot. Maybe someone who had never written a book before you know.. should've waited until it was at least in the final stage of line edits?

Greene idolizes Sanderson. You think he would've taken a lesson out of his history. He had a dozen books in the backlog, some written a decade before publication that had to be redone from scratch (and that was with the work of editors who were investing in him not just taking a paycheck).

Maybe "deadlines" is codeword for "adsense money running low, now that I left my Software development job for Youtube Fame"

[pensandthreads]

Maybe "deadlines" is codeword for "adsense money running low, now that I left my Software development job for Youtube Fame"

I doubt it. He gets at the bare minimum 1k every month just from Patreon alone (more likely closer to 2k). He does have other sources with promotions and youtube money. He's doing this for his ego of releasing a book and because he knows it will sell right out the gate, unlike books from authors without massive ready made platforms. It's not because he has a great love or passion for writing which is what the vast majority of the booktube/authotube books come down to and why they're so bad.

[krranky]

I gave that shit a dislike pronto.

I only recently found out from another BookTuber that disliking a video still counts as engagement so helps in terms of the algorithm. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I delete YouTube videos I've regretted watching from my history. What probably has more of an impact is when I ask YouTube not to recommend a channel to me anymore.

[WanderingWeirdo2]

I gave that shit a dislike pronto.

I only recently found out from another BookTuber that disliking a video still counts as engagement so helps in terms of the algorithm. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I delete YouTube videos I've regretted watching from my history. What probably has more of an impact is when I ask YouTube not to recommend a channel to me anymore.

Oh damn. I'll remember that for next time, thanks.

[Whattf]

Hello, long time no see lol. I watched Daniel Greene's video about him publishing the book (yes the one that everyone mentioned) and I have some stuff to say: first he says stuff like: I'm self-publishing because I'll get more money off the book and I'll be able to advertise it on the channel but then he's like If it sells well I'll have the leverage to speak to a trad publisher. Like wtf is that plan????? if he publishes a book traditionally he can still advertise on his changed lmao. Second, yeah I get it, THE MONEY, bigger cut, and more control over your story I get it. yeah, nice cover, people are hyped, sure you'll have readers considering the number of subscribers he has but he is not counting on if the book is ready for publication. Like tf the first draft is done yeah ok but a book takes time, plus, is not like he is not known in the fantasy world so why wait to be commercially successful to trad pub seems ridiculous. Selling a lot of books doesn't mean he'll get picked up by a publisher, lol they want quality too.
Then using Iwriterly as help hahahahahahahahahahaha that made me laugh.
I guess what I'm trying to say but really can't find the words is: He mentioned in another video that he needs to practice his writing and that is the best he can do now and that stuff, then why self-publish now? like, he could wait a little, write more and then see. If he's so desperate to publish but is not the type of work that is enough quality to be self-published and that perhaps he'll regret it, maybe create a blog and post the novella there and see what people think??? why damage a possible career in writing? If he wanted to hone their craft with the novella publishing as in making people pay for that, is not it. I know he reviews fantasy but reviewing fantasy is not the same as writing it so whatever is in that book I guess we shall see.
I wish him the best tho, but I can't stop thinking that he might be making a big mistake? If it's horrible, that's something that is not easy to forget especially for readers tho and publishers too, if the book is a flop and has bad reviews then what? It won't matter that it sold well lol. Idk it just makes me sad and pissed off at the same time. I guess time will tell.

[maybeast]

Hello, long time no see lol. I watched Daniel Greene's video about him publishing the book (yes the one that everyone mentioned) and I have some stuff to say: first he says stuff like: I'm self-publishing because I'll get more money off the book and I'll be able to advertise it on the channel but then he's like If it sells well I'll have the leverage to speak to a trad publisher. Like wtf is that plan????? if he publishes a book traditionally he can still advertise on his changed lmao. Second, yeah I get it, THE MONEY, bigger cut, and more control over your story I get it. yeah, nice cover, people are hyped, sure you'll have readers considering the number of subscribers he has but he is not counting on if the book is ready for publication. Like tf the first draft is done yeah ok but a book takes time, plus, is not like he is not known in the fantasy world so why wait to be commercially successful to trad pub seems ridiculous. Selling a lot of books doesn't mean he'll get picked up by a publisher, lol they want quality too.
Then using Iwriterly as help hahahahahahahahahahaha that made me laugh.
I guess what I'm trying to say but really can't find the words is: He mentioned in another video that he needs to practice his writing and that is the best he can do now and that stuff, then why self-publish now? like, he could wait a little, write more and then see. If he's so desperate to publish but is not the type of work that is enough quality to be self-published and that perhaps he'll regret it, maybe create a blog and post the novella there and see what people think??? why damage a possible career in writing? If he wanted to hone their craft with the novella publishing as in making people pay for that, is not it. I know he reviews fantasy but reviewing fantasy is not the same as writing it so whatever is in that book I guess we shall see.
I wish him the best tho, but I can't stop thinking that he might be making a big mistake? If it's horrible, that's something that is not easy to forget especially for readers tho and publishers too, if the book is a flop and has bad reviews then what? It won't matter that it sold well lol. Idk it just makes me sad and pissed off at the same time. I guess time will tell.

I just watched that video from Daniel, and I found it eerily similar to a video I remember from Jenna Moreci years and years ago when she was first talking about choosing to self-publish instead of going the traditional route. It took me a while to understand that a lot of what she was saying in that video was just completely wrong and very misguided about the self-publishing "industry"...stuff that I needed de-bunked for me later on. And if Meg follows whatever Jenna says, then I'm guessing that bled over into Daniel's thoughts as well. I totally don't see this ending well for him......

[pensandthreads]

The reality is self-publishing is the new vanity publishing. This isn't a blanket statement for all niches and genres. I know romance and certain non-fiction niches flourish here. I'm sure too there may be a 1 in a million genius who produces superbly polished work on their own. Realistically though, especially, for lit and sff writers, you buy into the best "package" of services to give yourself the best shot to be seen. Paying an editor is not the same as the publishing house who is investing in you and counting on your work's success, combing through it. No editor you pay is going to veto your work because it's fundamentally bad (If i'm wrong on that I promise what would happen is the author would get huffy and say something like not everyone has the same taste and find an editor who will look at their work). Daniel Greene may have potential to be a decent writer but from what he's said this isn't a craft he's been working on for years (sorry being an ardent speed reader doesn't count). 99% chance he's going to shoot himself in the foot with this release. It will likely tank and people will remember. Sure he'll have sales. Sure he'll have good reviews from his book tube friends and crazy fans. But the 1 stars will come out confused about the hype and pointing out the author's 'faked' success.

[Whattf]

I agree with both of you. There's this huge misconception about publishing in general. Self-publishing is great but is not for everyone, same with traditional publishing. However, these authortubers are creating this idea that first- self-publishing is a second option when your manuscript is not accepted by either agents and publishers (cough KM cough) if it's not accepted then there must be a why. Second, they have this idea that self-publishing is a way to show the world that THEY CAN SELL BOOKS!!!! but in reality, sales won't matter if the book is crap and people say is crap (that's why we have authortubers giving 5-star reviews with just "AMAZINNGGG BOOk!!!" mixed with the sea of 1-star reviews). Self-publishing is more than that. Also these youtubers should stop demonizing traditional publishing, because the impression I'm getting from Daniel and other authortubers is that in the end they still want to trad pub and that's why they are self-publishing like wtf???

[pensandthreads]

I agree with both of you. There's this huge misconception about publishing in general. Self-publishing is great but is not for everyone, same with traditional publishing. However, these authortubers are creating this idea that first- self-publishing is a second option when your manuscript is not accepted by either agents and publishers (cough KM cough) if it's not accepted then there must be a why. Second, they have this idea that self-publishing is a way to show the world that THEY CAN SELL BOOKS!!!! but in reality, sales won't matter if the book is crap and people say is crap (that's why we have authortubers giving 5-star reviews with just "AMAZINNGGG BOOk!!!" mixed with the sea of 1-star reviews). Self-publishing is more than that. Also these youtubers should stop demonizing traditional publishing, because the impression I'm getting from Daniel and other authortubers is that in the end they still want to trad pub and that's why they are self-publishing like wtf???

Yes the excuses are so flawed. The way they're always going on about the reasons your book is being rejected: personal tastes, THE MARKET!, agents/publishers hit their quotas etc. Like sure that may be true to a degree but that represents a teeny tiny percent of the rejections and honestly most of those will find a home elsewhere. It may not be on the first round... it may take a couple of years but if you keep at it and write more the chances those will consistently apply to you are slim. The vast vast majority of rejected materials are because they are simply not good. Constantly promoting the excuses just feeds into the delusion of so many hopefuls who never better themselves or accept it's not for them and instead blame the elite gatekeepers.

[Justanotherreader99]

I don’t watch his channel enough to know who this guy really is, but I wonder if he’s going the Jenna Moreci route of publishing. Jenna mentioned on her channel years ago that multiple agents contacted her about wanting to sign her after the release of TSC. (Don’t know how true this is. For all I know she could have just said that to hype readers/fans up to buy it because agent =great book) I’m wondering if he thinks his large sub count will get agents to come to him that way too. Either way it boils down to this. Is it talent getting these authortubers ahead or popularity? Those are vastly different things. Popularity sells books. It turns fans blind to the books problems. Authortube and booktube bank on their sub counts to make them “rich” and even more popular. What’s sad is even traditional publishing are offering book deals to YouTubers just because of their subscriber numbers. It’s honestly just gross at this point.

[somebodysomeone]

I don’t watch his channel enough to know who this guy really is, but I wonder if he’s going the Jenna Moreci route of publishing. Jenna mentioned on her channel years ago that multiple agents contacted her about wanting to sign her after the release of TSC. (Don’t know how true this is. For all I know she could have just said that to hype readers/fans up to buy it because agent =great book)

It sound plaucible. They can sell a book of an author with a huge platform easier.

[Justanotherreader99]

Which goes back to what I said earlier. Are these “good” books or are they just written by popular people so that trumps talent. We can clearly see the quality of their writing is poor yet their popularity gets them a book deal. This in and of itself, is turning the traditional publishing industry into a laughing stock. They’re only out to make money, not spread good books. The perfect example is Zenith. Terrible book written by popular people and got a sequel. I’m starting to lose all faith in traditional publishing.

[greysweatpants20]

I have hope for Daniel's book because he is a critical reader who picks up on different writing techniques that go into a well crafted book beyond incredibly generic shit like, "don't create characters with no vulnerabilities or flaws" which is more than I can say for most booktubers and authortubers. However, criticism is always easier than doing so I'll reserve further judgment until I've seen some pages.

I'm an unpublished writer (I'm sure many of you are as well lol) and when I am finally ready to take that leap, I will be going the traditional publishing route. That's because it falls in line with what my career and writing priorities are. I have no interest in being a full time writer and my main career aspirations are elsewhere. So the upfront costs of self publishing simply are a no-go for me. Plus I have no interest in working with formatting, or dealing with book covers, and other shit that some other writers care a lot about. Wide distribution is what I want.

All this to say, I came to that conclusion after weighing what was important for me and if Daniel feels that more creative control and a large cut is the most important thing, I don't see an issue at all with that.

[OneMoreMessyReader]

Which goes back to what I said earlier. Are these “good” books or are they just written by popular people so that trumps talent. We can clearly see the quality of their writing is poor yet their popularity gets them a book deal. This in and of itself, is turning the traditional publishing industry into a laughing stock. They’re only out to make money, not spread good books. The perfect example is Zenith. Terrible book written by popular people and got a sequel. I’m starting to lose all faith in traditional publishing.

Thing is though- they got burned by cutting corners. Everyone hates Zenith, everyone shit on Again But Better. I don't think we're going to see popular people just getting the book deal anymore. If that was the case, Katytastic would have a book out by now. Hell, an agent would have PMd her to sign her on already. Same with Jesse and a few others. They know now that fame alone does not make for guaranteed success and sales.

Sasha and Christine got their foot in the door already though. They might get to ride that wave even if it ruined it for everybody else, but they will have to become better writers to stay in the game. What will be really telling is if they can sell any books after this - both of them got two book deals and are about to or have already finished up their contract.

I actually think we will see the opposite going forward, and that more and more youtubers won't get a books deal just for their subscriber count. It will help people already in the game and making good content, but they can't afford to pin all their Hope's on fame. I think the future if traditional publishing is going to be smaller and smaller advances while they try and get ahold on how to market adult books with that YA feel in the adult section.