Michelle & Cultural Appropriation

[Nesoi]

Very interesting, thought-provoking and intelligent arguments made on this thread. However, please remember to respect other users, their opinions and their culture

[Nesoi]

Offtopic: Sorry to be slightly off topic but what do people think of FunforLouis and his dreads. For me, he is a classic example of a white person stealing a look to be cool but not really understanding the meaning behind it. Also, the SacconeJolys posted a pic of themselves with an Indian Headdress last year at some Gleam event - sadly no one batted an eyelid or was interested/ offended enough to start a debate about it. Some fans commented they were offended and they replied it was a fancy dress photoshoot That is the annoying thing with so many Yters...they are shallow and don't bother to educate/ inform themselves about a topic, culture, place they visit etc and think it is acceptable to just point a camera at everything and say it looks 'so cool'...much like Michelle does with her offensive bindi look or others she has done

[meowch]

I'm Indian, from a Hindu family. Personally, I'm pretty disgusted by the whole bindi trend. For Hindu women, the bindi has so much significance. Not only does it have great ancestral significance (ie often there is a different style, colour and name for it depending on your familial origins, in my family we call it pottu), it marks the spiritual centre - where the universe was supposed to have originated from on Lord Brahma's forehead and where one's intellect originates. For most women, it can signify age and marital status too.

Using it as a fashion accessory negates the history and culture behind it. It is like saying 'oh look at these Hindus, their culture isn't really important because they're not white, but this one thing they do is so cute and fashion forward, let me wear it for an instagram photo.'

But in reality, Hindu women in the US who wear it face so much discrimination and have been attacked in places like parking lots.

Tldr: it sends out the message that if you're white it's okay for you to do this, but if you're not then you will be discriminated against.

PS: I say this as someone who is not a practising Hindu and doesn't wear a bindi.
Also, as an Indian, we really do love when you acknowledge our culture and ask about certain traditions. What sucks is that Michelle and those who appropriate don't acknowledge the significance and history of the symbols they use.

Also for some of you who don't think cultural appropriation is a thing, how would you react to a Hindu woman in a 'nun' costume for Halloween? Does it seem right to take an important aspect of Christianity and trivialise it as a Halloween costume?

(NOT implying that those who culturally appropriate are usually Christians)

[mad pyjamas]

Also for some of you who don't think cultural appropriation is a thing, how would you react to a Hindu woman in a 'nun' costume for Halloween? Does it seem right to take an important aspect of Christianity and trivialise it as a Halloween costume?

(NOT implying that those who culturally appropriate are usually Christians)

I think in a lot of cultures, religion is actually part of the culture and part of everyday life, so that's why religion in general has more significance for them. For example, I grew up in Canada with absolutely no religious upbringing, so that's why I don't have a problem with crosses being used in fashion, even though technically I am a Christian. Honestly I wouldn't care if anyone dressed as a nun for Halloween, because to me it doesn't mean anything.
I hope that made sense!

[meowch]

Also for some of you who don't think cultural appropriation is a thing, how would you react to a Hindu woman in a 'nun' costume for Halloween? Does it seem right to take an important aspect of Christianity and trivialise it as a Halloween costume?

(NOT implying that those who culturally appropriate are usually Christians)

I think in a lot of cultures, religion is actually part of the culture and part of everyday life, so that's why religion in general has more significance for them. For example, I grew up in Canada with absolutely no religious upbringing, so that's why I don't have a problem with crosses being used in fashion, even though technically I am a Christian. Honestly I wouldn't care if anyone dressed as a nun for Halloween, because to me it doesn't mean anything.
I hope that made sense!

I get where you're coming from. I was just wondering if the white people who didn't get cultural appropriation found this example easier to understand, or even relate to.

[Trololol]

Also for some of you who don't think cultural appropriation is a thing, how would you react to a Hindu woman in a 'nun' costume for Halloween? Does it seem right to take an important aspect of Christianity and trivialise it as a Halloween costume?

(NOT implying that those who culturally appropriate are usually Christians)

I think in a lot of cultures, religion is actually part of the culture and part of everyday life, so that's why religion in general has more significance for them. For example, I grew up in Canada with absolutely no religious upbringing, so that's why I don't have a problem with crosses being used in fashion, even though technically I am a Christian. Honestly I wouldn't care if anyone dressed as a nun for Halloween, because to me it doesn't mean anything.
I hope that made sense!

I get where you're coming from. I was just wondering if the white people who didn't get cultural appropriation found this example easier to understand, or even relate to.

White people often don't understand what it means to be marginalized. That is what's called White Privilege. Throughout history, whiteness has always been synonymous with superiority, and it has persisted in more than one way today. It is a standard that has permeated even the beauty community, and non-Caucasians often end up lightening their skin to achieve part of the privilege associated with having white skin. This is why Michelle lightens her skin with filters and wears foundation that's to light for her actual skin tone.

Native American head dresses are sacred. It's like if someone decided to wear a soldier's uniform for the cred, or if you were wearing it as an accessory/costume; you just don't do it. There have been many instances in pop culture where the Native American imagery has been exploited by white people; the most recent example that I could recall was the No Doubt music video for 'Looking Hot'.

http://flavorwire.com/344807/what-a-nat ... usic-video





What cultural appropriation fails to take into account, even with the bindi, is how people from the minority group that is being exploited are often most likely to be victimized. As in the No Doubt video, Gwen Stefani is depicted as a sexualized Native American woman. Statistically, Native American women are most likely to be sexually victimized (raped, sexually assaulted.) A quote from the article linked above:

The main concern I had was with the objectification and sexualization of a person depicted as a Native American woman. The whole tying her up and so forth, together with the provocative lyrics, is a timeworn trope. It made me think of a video game launched in the early ’80s by Atari called Custer’s Revenge. The object of the game is to navigate your character, which is General Custer, through a barrage of arrows as he makes his way toward a Native woman tied to a stake. The goal is for him to have forceable sex with the woman. I present this to my class in the context of a long, sad history of the sexualization of Native women, who face the highest rates of sexual violence of any discrete group of women in the entire US. I’ve written on this subject and had a piece published in The New York Times. So seeing Gwen Stefani tied up as a Native woman with lyrics that say, “Go ahead and look at me/Do you think I’m looking hot?” was just pretty revolting.

The same goes with the bindi; as it is, there have been a series of horrific rape cases from India. The most notorious case being where a woman named Jyoti was raped and sodomized with metal pipes on a moving bus. And then there was the case of the village girl who was raped as she went to the communal toilet (as toilets are rare infrastructure in villages, especially those with lower caste groups); she was then hung from a mango tree. The problem with just 'borrowing' bits from Indian culture (and any other minority culture) is that it reduces the entire culture into a mere accessory of the exotic. It minimalizes the struggles of that ethnic group by lending desirable cultural traits to the more privileged without the benefit of having any of the privilege of whiteness being of any use to them.




There is a lack of reciprocation in terms of cultural dialogue when the underprivileged group ends up having to suffer from racism, problems within their own community with gender inequality; but when a person with lighter skin decides to be trendy by wearing sacred items of that group, people turn a blind eye to all the other issues.

AND THE SAME GOES WITH DREADLOCKS.

http://www.dreadlocks.org/the-history-of-dreadlocks/

It is said that dreadlocks originated with these eastern holy men. Possessing nothing, renouncing the world and possessions (not even a comb) they eschewed even personal grooming, hence the inevitable dreadlocks.

Dreadlocks have their roots (again, no pun intended) in spiritual circles. The Hindu holy men of the east, Rastafarians, which are essentially Judeo-Christians of the Caribbean Islands wore dreads as part of their religious lifestyle. Dreads themselves for the eastern yogis were nothing special, but the Rastas almost deified their locks, considering the hair to be holy and powerful. Dreadlocks became a religious priority.

So, in a nutshell, dreadlocks originated from holy men who had taken a vow of poverty. It signified them not having attachment to any earthly possession that they may be in touch with their spirituality.

And then Michelle came along.





Remember that time when Zendaya Coleman was essentially racially stereotyped on Fashion Police for having dreads?



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... ay-it.html

But when Kylie Jenner had dreads, she was called a 'trend setter'? How fucked up is that?

TL,DR; People of colour are vilified and mocked for embracing their cultural heritage, but when it is accessorized by more privileged groups, it's 'trendy.' Fuck Michelle Phan and her ignorant cultural appropriation. Her empowerment bullshit is getting old, and at this point, it's becoming even more irritating and offensive.

More offensive shit here: http://www.carbonated.tv/entertainment/ ... ropriation

[Trololol]

As it is, Michelle's fans are fawning over her accessorizing these cultural items. Her refusing to admit wrongdoing is essentially an act of perpetuation of cultural appropriation and ignorance.

At least No Doubt removed their 'Looking Hot' video and issued a public apology.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/ ... KU20121104

[Trololol]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/emaoconnor/rue- ... gp#4ldqpgp

[Nesoi]

But when Kylie Jenner had dreads, she was called a 'trend setter'? How fucked up is that?

Extremely effed up. Speechless. it is truly disgusting when the media enable. I think I am most offended and shocked by them giving her this label without them realizing the significance

[Chlorophyll]

I've stopped myself from contributing to this thread for a while now. Explanation: I don't think it's the responsibility of any one person to understand the intricacies of other cultures just because it's PC or posh. Sorry. If you're autistic (or otherwise impaired,) you already have enough trouble understanding and expressing yourself within your own culture. That's how I feel and I make no apologies for it.

HOWEVER, if you do it so often that people on a forum make an entire thread about you doing it.....might be time to fuckin' quit. If you present yourself as someone who is open to spirituality and alternative lifestyles.....yep.