ItsWayPastMyBedTime (Carrie Fletcher)

[cylinder]

Hold the phone here. (btw sorry for butting in like that but I've just been lurking) Storytelling is something a lot of people can have, but not everybody can write well. And being an author is about writing. We can beat about the bush all we want, but there's a reason why we have a sort of abhorrence to folk who simply pitch the ideas to the people who actually make them happen.

If I'm understanding correctly, your point is that unless you're responsible for the minutiae of your creation you're not responsible for that creation at all?

You don't just let your brain fart and write down every purp that comes out. You need to bust one's buttocks editing, drafting, character building, switching chapters/scenes up, rewriting sentences, reading from an unbiased POV, sketching out the history, the present events, and future events, all while also maintaining your own style and writing it well enough to be sold decently, which is an author's goal after all. It's a lot of work and if you can't construct a sentence properly or write a word correctly and use a variety of words too, then you can't cut it, I'm sorry. I can cut a ham leg, doesn't mean I can cut a cadaver.

Just to be clear, you're saying that if an author isn't responsible solely for:

- editing
- drafting
- character building
- switching chapters
- rewriting sentences
- reading from an unbiased point of view
- sketching out history and events

They are not an author?

If so, I have some unfortunate news for you: almost all authors will have help with some combination of the components to being a "real" author you listed, for example JK Rowling worked with Arthur Levine:

Reading from an unbiased point of view:

My first job is to tell Jo [J.K. Rowling] what I was thinking or feeling the whole way through the book. It is my job with any author to say, "Well, this is the first point at which my mind kind of wandered, maybe this section is too long."

Keeping the story consistent across books:

The next phase, and this is particularly complicated with the Harry Potter books, is to make sure that things are consistent from book to book. For that I have the help of my assistant editor, Cheryl Klein, and my managing editor, Manuela Soares, and a couple of very good copy editors as well.

The fact of the matter is that an authors role is that of a story teller, they exist to tell a story. The process through which a book gets made can involve dozens of people who have an impact every step of the way, no author in the real world adheres to your standards of authorship, otherwise how would we have a world in which dyslexic authors can exist -- and author some of the most compelling books?

People don't create in vacuums.

[fleurish]

Well, today, I went back onto that site, (just to have a look, my posting days are LONG gone!) after a couple months of not having even thought about the site …and everyone’s up in arms and CONVINCED that I’ve been posting under several different pseudonyms since then…NONE of which are me and i’m in hysterics!

Is it reverse day or reverse psychology day?
If it wasn't you, Carrie then... WHY DO YOU GIVE SO MANY DAMNS AND WRITE ABOUT THIS?!

[usurpadora]

Hi, I've not used the forum in a while so I won't be too good at quoting separate parts, forgive me.

If I'm understanding correctly, your point is that unless you're responsible for the minutiae of your creation you're not responsible for that creation at all?

I'm saying that if I have an idea and someone else does the brunt of the work then no, it's my idea but not my credit to claim. How much minutiae you have control over depends on the job, of course. If I go to Neil Gaiman and say "hey man, can you write a story about gods and deities?" and he says "great idea!" but he goes and does all the writing and the actual process of it, it may be my idea, but it's his work and his project. The fact that I gave him an idea to feed off on does not make me a writer. He's the writer.

Just to be clear, you're saying that if an author isn't responsible solely for:

- editing
- drafting
- character building
- switching chapters
- rewriting sentences
- reading from an unbiased point of view
- sketching out history and events

They are not an author?

Of course people can get help, especially with editing, because if you've been writing over 50k words (as if often the case with large novels) then you are oblivious to things like typos or maybe an off sentence. That's where editors come in. But the meat of the work, the juice, the writing style, the phrasing, those 50k words, are still yours. An editor has a specific job, to guide you and assist you, but it's still your work. And that's something that can't be replaced or hashed up by other people. It's what makes your writing yours, your self-expression, your penmanship if you will. And that takes effort and a lot of work. The history and the foundations for your book are most presumably yours. I don't see why this is hard to understand.

Your quote about Levine and Rowling illustrated my point ^ he's an editor! That's his job! To guide the author and to see things from a third perspective. But Rowling still wrote the books. She didn't have grammar and poor linguistic skills as an excuse. She buckled down and wrote the series. And Rowling would have to scratch out and edit out a lot of things she most likely favoured, because it was either not fitting or it was unecessary. But she still wrote it!

The fact of the matter is that an authors role is that of a story teller, they exist to tell a story. The process through which a book gets made can involve dozens of people who have an impact every step of the way, no author in the real world adheres to your standards of authorship, otherwise how would we have a world in which dyslexic authors can exist -- and author some of the most compelling books?

People don't create in vacuums.

You are confusing the specific jobs of people being paid to assist the author in making their work saleable and as good as it can be, with the author actually doing the act, which is writing it. Editors edit, artists draw covers, printers print, marketers market. Authors gonna authorate. But no you can't say you're an author if you just make someone else do the authoring. That's not how it works. Zoella isn't an author because she had an idea and hired a ghostwriter. Carrie isn't an author either unless she works her chops to become linguistically proficient enough to not use grammar and syntax as excuses. Those are piss poor excuses for bad penmanship or hard times. Writers make mistake on their first, second, tenth draft, due to the large amount of text they write down, bound to miss some things. That's where editors come in and proofreaders. Editors don't write the book for you, they edit.

Also dyslexic authors can express themselves just fine, they just need more proofreading. Terry Pratchett used a voice recording machine to record his voice and he "spoke in writing". They need tools and maybe a bit more help, but they still did their own thing.

[cylinder]

Your quote about Levine and Rowling illustrated my point ^ he's an editor! That's his job! To guide the author and to see things from a third perspective. But Rowling still wrote the books. She didn't have grammar and poor linguistic skills as an excuse. She buckled down and wrote the series. And Rowling would have to scratch out and edit out a lot of things she most likely favoured, because it was either not fitting or it was unecessary. But she still wrote it!

I'm going to bow out of this discussion now because I don't see any way we're going to be able to reach any sort of conclusion.

Carrie stated in her video that her editor gave her feedback on her spelling and grammar* because she isn't great at it -- but still, she's buckled down and wrote the book! -- and feedback on which parts to expand on. There is no material difference between the description of JK Rowling's editors job and the one that Carrie's editor is doing. Each editor(ial team) is responsible for some degree of minutiae, but both authors are responsible for the story (which is what matters in a book).

* She seems to confuse spelling/grammar in the video, it could just be spelling, but both is more likely.

[paintmedance]

It's ironic, Carrie trying to act all casual, like she couldn't care less about us on this site by saying she finds us all just ~so hilarious~, in a wordy blog post that proves on its own that she just cannot let anything said on here go.

[PeggyCarter]

Carrie needs to get the hell over herself. I honestly feel embarrassed for her. By posting about how little she cares about this site, she may as well have just put up a billboard proclaiming her obsession with it.

[Pinkapple32]

Carrie's only human. If I was in Carrie's position, I'd want to see what people were saying tbh

[paintmedance]

That's fair enough, I'd be reading on here too if I was a Youtuber, but she actively seeks out hate, replies to bad comments far more than nice ones, and fights back against everything we say on here in some form or another, whether it's vague comments in a video or a passive aggressive tweet/blog. All whilst at the same time preaching about being above haters, and staying away from the negativity.

[fleurish]

Thought: Well, this isn't actually her provoking us...for we were always discussing here. This is her trying to show her fans how sad she was and how innocent and polite she actually is, yet once again at the end of the post obnoxious kicks in and goes like "yeah you lot are sad beyond belief"

[eevee]

wait, so this is about us? http://carriehopefletcher.com/post/1260 ... ate-part-2

[usurpadora]

Yeah it is, eevee.

I'd check this place out too, if I was a youtuber. Difference is instead of coming clean and being honest, like emma blackery (although we saw how well that turned out), or just browsing quietly for curiosity's sake, she posted as a random person trying to defend herself then got caught and is now trying to transfer the shame of it to the forum rather than at herself for making the mistake.

It's a gossip forum. We're not bullying her, stalking her, harassing her or even doxxing her. It's just gossiping and it's mostly not positive. Which just shows how much she'll go out of her way to find haters and hate, then laugh at them for it, like she's superior. Girl, if you never cared about the hate in the first place, you wouldn't be here or get yourself involved. If you really did only want positivity you'd stick with your army of fans on twitter or tumblr or wherever, who are little girls ready to follow you and toss their parents' wallet at you.

[eevee]

wow i missed a lot while i took a little hiatus...i wish i had been there for this!!

[KissedAFrog]

Oh wow. I honestly didn't expect to find much in Carrie's section of this site. I thought she was too dull to get much of a rise out of people, but this thread just gave me a good few hours of entertainment, thanks.

I was subscribed to Carrie from early 2012 to early 2013. I unsubscribed when she released this "gem" -
[video][/video]

I had originally subscribed to Carrie because I was a fan of Alex back in the day (but no longer am, for obvious reasons). She had always tested my patience a little bit, but I truly believed she had good intentions. I ended up being quite bored with her videos, and then when this came out I was honestly offended by how condescending it was. I was 19 at the time, so I guess I was above the age she was aiming at, but I think even 13 year old me would have been ticked off by her Sesame Street tone.

Anyway, I forgot about her until she popped up in my "Suggestions" a few months ago, with a video about her book. (Don't get me started on why a 22 year old should not be writing a life advice book. Just because you've been a teenager and are now (barely) older than them does not mean you are qualified to give them sagely words of wisdom.)

I know lots of YouTubers annoy people, but I always thought I was quite alone in my dislike of Carrie. Reading through the records of her behaviour towards Lindsey (and Lex) made me realise that she's not just a dull girl that thinks too highly of herself; she's actually a rather petty and vile person.

Carrie - if you do read this - I want you to know that I never wanted to dislike you. I think you're talented. I think you're pretty. I think you're good at the "nice girl" persona. But there's no excuse for treating your viewers like they're stupid. It's a big turn off.

[jitterbug]

I'm just...disappointed with her at this point. I've had a love/hate relationship with her content for a while, but she's officially jumped the shark for me.

Let's just say for fun that she hasn't been posting as someone else on here (and I still maintain the InkBeam is her, since they haven't logged in after their Carrie-length and Carrie-styled post asking why VelvetGh0st was viewed as a bad person following her Tall Poppies video, and there's no way that's a coincidence)...Carrie, at the end of the day, you still keep coming back. Minimally, you're keeping up with this thread, then going on tumblr with a high and mighty post about how all of us "hateful, unconstructive" people are such a waste of your time. That does not make you more mature. It makes you just as mature as the person you were when you created your first fake username on here. You haven't grown as a person in years (or at least, your online persona has not), and that's really depressing.

The thing that I'm gutted about the most is that I really liked Carrie. I think she's got a fantastic voice, and she's good for a joke or two. I just wish she would grow up. It wouldn't bother me so much if she hadn't encouraged her mindless fanbase into looking up to her as a big sister (and therefore making it so they don't second-guess her when she's immature), and she clearly accepted a role that she is not grown up or mature enough for. She's mentioned more than once that she knows she can't be a perfect role model so her fans shouldn't expect her to be perfect, but that doesn't give her a free pass to act as immature as she wants afterwards. There was something in her book that was like signing an oath between her and her reader that her reader wouldn't expect her to be perfect all the time (and she has an area for the reader to SIGN IT as though it's a contract), and that really grossed me out. I'll try to dig it up at some point if someone hasn't already.

Anyway, I hope to see her grow in the next few years, but with behavior like this, I'm not going to hold my breath.

[GossipJunkie]

First post... sorry if it's utterly terrible!

Just wanted to weigh in about YouTubers, specifically Carrie, reading this forum. I was once close friends with this girl, and a particular event happened which caused her to become incredibly hostile to me. I didn't have a twitter account at this point, but friends of mine who did would tell me the horribly abusive things she'd post about me on there, and I became compelled to check her account. In fact, I started checking it all the damn time out of some weird need to control it? Even though of course I wasn't controlling anything, but somehow knowing what she was saying (even though it made me feel awful) was me exercising my control. Eventually over the space of about a year her posts became less and less frequent and I stopped looking, but it made me think...

Carrie definitely seems like a bit of a control freak, so it wouldn't surprise me if she was refreshing this forum more than once daily to see what's being said about her. I can completely understand why, but she should learn that she has absolutely zero control over what people say here. I mean, her attempt at controlling it so horribly backfired. If reading this forum makes her feel like she can control it, then fine. But all it's really doing is building into obsession that will only backfire on her again.

[Rubylee87]

New poster but have lurked on here for a while.

I find Carrie's theatre themed vlogs interesting but what irritates me about her is how defensive she gets when anyone suggests how her privileged background and family situation have contributed to her success.

She has had so many opportunities presented to her that less privileged young people would never experience. She was performing in the West End and appearing in commercials from an early age thanks to her supportive parents and affiliation with Sylvia Young theatre school. She has a private education, her brother is a famous musician and her sister-in-law is a published author. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with having a privileged upbringing but having the honesty to admit that it helped her to succeed would make people have a lot more respect for her. The fact she's so defensive about it makes it obvious that she is aware of how it's helped her success. She doesn't need to be so touchy about it.

I work with young people who are from a very disadvantaged area. Some of them are talented performers, communicators, writers and musicians. However, most of them do not realistically have the money, support from family or famous siblings with useful contacts to help them to successfully pursue their dreams like Carrie has. The message she constantly preaches to her young fans of 'being able to achieve anything you want in life by working hard' is a little misleading. For someone like her, it may well happen. For a young person with very limited opportunities, the chances are slim. However, I don't think she is reflective enough to realise this.

I know she dislikes the criticism she sometimes receives but she has made a choice to be a public figure. She enjoys the adulation she receives from being a YouTube star, theatre performer and YouTube writer. With fame comes criticism and if you've made that choice, you need to also have the maturity to handle the negative comments and not to actively search for them and defend yourself. It's a battle you can never win.

She is a talented performer but I think she needs to be realistic about why people compare her to her brother or criticise her for her book deal, which she got through fame rather than literary talent. It insults people's intelligence to act as if she did it all on her own.

[jamsandwich]

Her post yesterday made my eyes almost roll out of my head. What do they say about people who protest too much...?

Don't even get me started on her Twitter, or should I say daily cringefest. I genuinely get secondhand embarrassment for her every single day.

[helia]

(I'm not going to comment on the author/grammar topic any more because this thread has suddenly flown forward and it's kind of been left behind anyway )

That blog post. She knows she can't comment any more on here so she's had to resort to doing it on her own blog which she knows we will read. She still cares about this website, no matter how much she tries to convince us otherwise. If she really didn't care she wouldn't even address it, if it really "made her giggle" she would just snort and move on. She really can't stop herself from joining in.

Inkbeam is confusing. Something tells me it's her, but it's a weird notion to make a new account on this site (after being busted once) just to boast about her own flat. Surely she'd try to be more incognito? Then again if she primarily made the post to ask about Gabriella, she probably couldn't help but stop by her own thread and use the opportunity to pay herself a nice fat compliment. I'd need to witness Inkbeam's return before I can shake this feeling that it's Carrie.

[usurpadora]

I missed the Inkbeam part because I was MIA at the time but honestly whether it is her or not, let's just amuse ourselves and carry on. Us pressuring her to admit to us isn't going to make her do it, regardless of who it is, especially when the real Carrie got busted once.

Man, I used to really like Carrie. I still think her hair is amazeballs, and I was so jealous of her performing. I have a dream of singing since I was a kid, and I'd love to sing theatre/musical songs, but I don't think I can sing for shit and I can't afford lessons. Even if I did, you can't just waltz up to a theatre here and ask to perform. You need to go to school which is hardcore performance art like dancing and acting, and with my weight they'd shut the door in my face.

For me what rubbed off badly was the increasing "sweetness" persona she was becoming. I understand her fanbase is primarily young girls, but the thing is that often times in the attempt to becoming sweet and likeable, you become passive aggressive and bitter under all the sugary attitude. And it's something I'm trying to get rid of myself, to stop beating about the bush and to become more upfront and "to the point". You can still be sweet and nice, but also be frank and "real". And honestly the content was lacking for me, I would have loved more stuff about vocals, singing, backstage theatre, what you can do, how it's like, more educational/informational videos. I'd have lapped it all up if she showed us more of that, I even sent her an ask on her tumblr once about making a video about singing techniques or advice. Fell on deaf ears, it seems.

Despite her very privileged start into life with career and opportunities, she could have made her channel so much more substantial with actual advice on what she's good at, which is singing/theatre. Being a teenager does not make you a good life advisor. That's why we have trained professionals. Writing blogs doesn't make you an author, either. But she can talk about starting out in theatre or the nitty gritty of it, since that's what she is exposed to, but nope.

[patd-obsessed]

Goodness me, it's been so long since I posted on GG but I wanted to join in on the Carrie forum.

Like most people here, I did used to be a fan of Carrie: I was subbed to her channel, proclaimed her to be the greatest singer I've ever heard and looked up to her as if she were the older sister I never had. Then I began to grow up, she began to get more and more condescending and I just had to stop watching.

Here's the thing: she is a talented woman. She has a good voice, she can act, I'm sure she does have some writing ability... This isn't meaningless hate, which is where my main issue with Carrie lies. Just because someone dislikes something you do/say, doesn't mean you should write them off as a 'hater.' The whole condescending attitude she possesses on YT is something that people have criticised, and that's fine! Yet Carrie seems to take any semblance of negativity and views it as a personal attack.

I wish she'd perhaps listen to some of the negativity and use it to grow as a person, rather than crying 'HATER' and setting her little army of minions on them. I'm well aware I'm not in her target audience: I'm 19, I don't need life advice from someone who is about 3 years older than me. The way she addresses her audience, however, just rubs me the wrong way: they don't need to be talked down to! They're equals!

Basically tl;dr: Carrie should stop taking every negative comment as a personal attack, and perhaps use them to improve herself as both a person and a content creator.