Bratayley: Annie LePaycheck Hayley LeWho?? Pt 12

[Guest]

Wow are we really bringing up a 14 year olds weight again? HorsesForCourses, I’m going to be real blunt with you: maybe you attack Katie D for her weight because you feel insecure about your own weight and need to project it?

Katie Donnelly isn’t fat. Its this thing called genetics. Have you seen her parents? Mike isn’t a stick. He’s built. And Jill isn’t a stick either. Katie D may annoy the living shit out of me but I personally draw the line when you attack someone’s physical image, ESPECIALLY a 14 year old girl’s. Knock. It. Off.


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[TheLoneStranger]

I don't know why YT recommended "Nervous About Gel Nails (WK 229.2)" to me, but I watched it. Annie was 10 and being carried (she blamed her Dad for "putting her down" too close to a puddle). Daddy brought her to get gel nails while Hayley was at gymnastics, which was traumatic, because she won't talk to strangers? Or gel nails are different? Unclear.

The question of the day was the most telling: "What is the nicest compliment you've ever gotten". Hayley immediately says "Oh gosh. That's a hard one because everyone calls me a brat". Annie does nothing to reassure her, or say anything nice....just turns the camera on herself and dithers while Hayley tells her it should be easy because people are always telling her how awesome she is. Annie settles on how people love her voice. Caleb jumps into frame to say her "voice is raspy". Annie gets flustered trying out an excuse: "well......my voice.....right now...... is almost......gone???"....clearly not believing the excuse she threw out there. Was this the genesis of the "lost voice"/"sick" excuse"?

Annie tries to stay up until midnight to knock out 3 days of school....so when did the hatred of school come into play?

Everyone says that the singing debacle was a post Caleb cash grab, but it seems like Annie had the seed planted before then. Also, Hayley clearly was a labeled a "bratty" 2nd class citizen and Annie the "perfect angel" prior to Caleb's death. The only difference seems to be that Caleb could put Annie in her place (or was this vlog a one off?). When that balance was lost, is that how the LeBling fame monster came to be? I am curious to see what life with Caleb life was like now.....

[chloesweb85]

I don't know why YT recommended "Nervous About Gel Nails (WK 229.2)" to me, but I watched it. Annie was 10 and being carried (she blamed her Dad for "putting her down" too close to a puddle). Daddy brought her to get gel nails while Hayley was at gymnastics, which was traumatic, because she won't talk to strangers? Or gel nails are different? Unclear.

The question of the day was the most telling: "What is the nicest compliment you've ever gotten". Hayley immediately says "Oh gosh. That's a hard one because everyone calls me a brat". Annie does nothing to reassure her, or say anything nice....just turns the camera on herself and dithers while Hayley tells her it should be easy because people are always telling her how awesome she is. Annie settles on how people love her voice. Caleb jumps into frame to say her "voice is raspy". Annie gets flustered trying out an excuse: "well......my voice.....right now...... is almost......gone???"....clearly not believing the excuse she threw out there. Was this the genesis of the "lost voice"/"sick" excuse"?

Annie tries to stay up until midnight to knock out 3 days of school....so when did the hatred of school come into play?

Everyone says that the singing debacle was a post Caleb cash grab, but it seems like Annie had the seed planted before then. Also, Hayley clearly was a labeled a "bratty" 2nd class citizen and Annie the "perfect angel" prior to Caleb's death. The only difference seems to be that Caleb could put Annie in her place (or was this vlog a one off?). When that balance was lost, is that how the LeBling fame monster came to be? I am curious to see what life with Caleb life was like now.....

I haven’t seen that one, but if you hadn’t have said Caleb was in it and Annie’s age, I would have thought it was a more recent vlog.

Doesn’t Annie always say that she sings because Caleb encouraged her? Or did I get that from a fan account?

[TheLoneStranger]

I don't know why YT recommended "Nervous About Gel Nails (WK 229.2)" to me, but I watched it. Annie was 10 and being carried (she blamed her Dad for "putting her down" too close to a puddle). Daddy brought her to get gel nails while Hayley was at gymnastics, which was traumatic, because she won't talk to strangers? Or gel nails are different? Unclear.

The question of the day was the most telling: "What is the nicest compliment you've ever gotten". Hayley immediately says "Oh gosh. That's a hard one because everyone calls me a brat". Annie does nothing to reassure her, or say anything nice....just turns the camera on herself and dithers while Hayley tells her it should be easy because people are always telling her how awesome she is. Annie settles on how people love her voice. Caleb jumps into frame to say her "voice is raspy". Annie gets flustered trying out an excuse: "well......my voice.....right now...... is almost......gone???"....clearly not believing the excuse she threw out there. Was this the genesis of the "lost voice"/"sick" excuse"?

Annie tries to stay up until midnight to knock out 3 days of school....so when did the hatred of school come into play?

Everyone says that the singing debacle was a post Caleb cash grab, but it seems like Annie had the seed planted before then. Also, Hayley clearly was a labeled a "bratty" 2nd class citizen and Annie the "perfect angel" prior to Caleb's death. The only difference seems to be that Caleb could put Annie in her place (or was this vlog a one off?). When that balance was lost, is that how the LeBling fame monster came to be? I am curious to see what life with Caleb life was like now.....

I haven’t seen that one, but if you hadn’t have said Caleb was in it and Annie’s age, I would have thought it was a more recent vlog.

Doesn’t Annie always say that she sings because Caleb encouraged her? Or did I get that from a fan account?

I only started watching post-Caleb, so I have no idea. I always assumed it was another minion fantasy. Just like how "Annie wrote Little Do You Know for Caleb".

Speaking of minion fantasy, they are buying the "too busy on set" excuse hook, line ,and sinker. I know some of you on here think she is actually busy on set days, but Annie herself talks about how boring it is and all they do is hang around. She seemed far busier going to gym 6 days a week, traveling for competitions, AND doing school every day. No hanging around doing nothing....except on holidays.

Not to mention they filmed set days for 2 years, and got even more content when she was in gym without any downtime. The bulk of her year is swimming, nails, shopping, face masks and movies. A month or two of filming organized YT skits can't derail a vlog filmed by 2 stay-at-home parents. Do we even know what the week long Nick project was yet?

[Lisatheacrobat]

Rewatching the last real vlog, you notice that Billy still has that out of breath, stuffy nose sound to his voice. He always sounds like he has a cold... what is up with that?

[lmmomSD]

I don't know why YT recommended "Nervous About Gel Nails (WK 229.2)" to me, but I watched it. Annie was 10 and being carried (she blamed her Dad for "putting her down" too close to a puddle). Daddy brought her to get gel nails while Hayley was at gymnastics, which was traumatic, because she won't talk to strangers? Or gel nails are different? Unclear.

The question of the day was the most telling: "What is the nicest compliment you've ever gotten". Hayley immediately says "Oh gosh. That's a hard one because everyone calls me a brat". Annie does nothing to reassure her, or say anything nice....just turns the camera on herself and dithers while Hayley tells her it should be easy because people are always telling her how awesome she is. Annie settles on how people love her voice. Caleb jumps into frame to say her "voice is raspy". Annie gets flustered trying out an excuse: "well......my voice.....right now...... is almost......gone???"....clearly not believing the excuse she threw out there. Was this the genesis of the "lost voice"/"sick" excuse"?

Annie tries to stay up until midnight to knock out 3 days of school....so when did the hatred of school come into play?

Everyone says that the singing debacle was a post Caleb cash grab, but it seems like Annie had the seed planted before then. Also, Hayley clearly was a labeled a "bratty" 2nd class citizen and Annie the "perfect angel" prior to Caleb's death. The only difference seems to be that Caleb could put Annie in her place (or was this vlog a one off?). When that balance was lost, is that how the LeBling fame monster came to be? I am curious to see what life with Caleb life was like now.....

I haven’t seen that one, but if you hadn’t have said Caleb was in it and Annie’s age, I would have thought it was a more recent vlog.

Doesn’t Annie always say that she sings because Caleb encouraged her? Or did I get that from a fan account?

She did post on IG once on Caleb's birthday I think about how they used to "make up songs in the basement and now I'm making our dreams come true". I wasn't sure if she actually wrote that or one of the parents did. I didn't really buy it.
Billy always carried her around. It's only been since all the traveling for filming and Hannie that she hung out with Katie more. If you watch any time she was in an unfamiliar setting, she would cling to Billy. There is even a thumbnail where he's rocking her like a baby in the airport. Maybe he's more comfortable with Hayley now because she's still a little girl. And I don't mean that in a pervy way (even though he does give me a skeevy vibe with the way he is so handsy with Annie's friends).


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[Lisatheacrobat]

I agree with the above statement about annie and Billy and that’s why I didn’t buy that she would be so willing to let Billy miss Christmas like he made it sound. She may have outgrown her clinginess but I don’t think she would have outgrown so much that she would be okay or understanding of Billy not being home for a holiday like that. That maaaaaybe would have been okay on Fourth of July, but not Christmas.

And it’s amazing that people seem to forget that she is still a child and a daughter and she may act older but she is still young and I think that she wouldn’t have understood or been okay with Billy leaving.

[KatieTheTerrible]

I went through and pulled a couple big points from the vlogs to try and see if it's possible to pinpoint when things went south...

Caleb’s passing- Oct 2015
Flair #1- April 2016
Flair #2 - Sept 2016
Increasing trips to LA being- Feb 2017
Annie lvl 9 state gymnastics meet— March 2017
Luna/ Frizbee- March 2017
Haley preforms in the talent show at her brick-and-mortar school- April 2017
Meet Hayden/ “We Basically Live in LA” vlog title- April 2017
Haley quits gymnastics (for dance, hah)- April 2017
Flair #3 - May 2017
Got an LA apartment— May 2017
Little Do You Know music video released- June 2017
Paige moves in/ Mexico mission trip- June 2017
Billy buys Katie an updated wedding/ engagement ring- July 2017
Move LA apartments (to the Beanbag Leap Ledge one) - July 2017
Annie quits gymnastics- August 2017
First episode of Chicken Girls released— Sept 2017
Hannie breakup— March/ April 2018
Announced plans to sell MD house— June 2018


A couple things I noticed:

- To me, it looks like things stayed the same after Caleb died for about two years. The girls got more material things more freely and I feel like Flair was some sort of half-attempt at a girl group, but overall things were fairly stable. Then at the beginning of 2017, they got a taste of LA and I think Katie felt a lot of relief in the escape. Things changed rapidly for all of them from March 2017- September 2017. Then things have just stayed the same since, which their fans seem to notice. There hasn’t been much change, just more music and filming with Brat. Just thinking of all of that is stressful to me— having a normal life, uprooting it and joining the LA life in a matter of a couple month whirlwind, then all of a sudden the chaos stops and you look around and your life is suddenly wildly different from a year ago but there’s not the same hullabaloo to distract you from being homesick and lonely.

- Annie seems like a totally different girl during the LDYK era. She was a lot lighter and happier- granted, she was still pre-teen and also in her first relationship. It’s hard to pinpoint exactly where her mood/ energy changes, but it’s sometime after the LDYK hype. Even just watching the music video, you can just tell she’s lighter and happier. (By lighter, I mean mood— her mood seems so heavy now, not sure of a better way to put it). I do note that this is around the time she quit gymnastics. As others have noted here, the structure and exercise of gymnastics may have been really important in regulating her emotions while she coped with her brother’s death. Perhaps the whirlwind move to LA, quitting gymnastics, becoming a teenager, dealing with a public breakup, or any combination of them are at the root of the sadness she seems to have now.

- I’m not really sure what was bringing them out to LA in the first place. They were going out for Nick meetings and Music.ly events, but otherwise I’m not really sure what the actual plan was. It’s particularly confusing because once they got out there, they got involved with RYH and Brat— but those both seemed opportunistic, like “The LeBlancs live here now, so let’s work with them,” and less so that the LeBlancs move specifically for either brand.

[Lisatheacrobat]

I feel like the LA move in general was very quick, unexpected and so on. I say this because as you pointed out, they got Luna and Frizbee the month before they “basically moved to LA” as per the title of their vlog. If they had been planning this move, planning to uproot, rebrand, whatever, they wouldn’t have bought Annie a horse. Those things are many thousands of dollars and to buy one for a kid to have for a month is complete nonsense. I know they spoil the girls (even more so after Caleb died), but that’s madness. I do believe that they intended on staying in MD.

DanceMomsNews channel on YouTube shared a comment that someone else pointed out could be a possible reason behind the divorce. As we all noticed it seemed like Billy never moved into the LA house. This particular commentor said that it seems like Billy never wanted to leave Maryland. The girls had a good life there, they were a normal family there, but also leaving Maryland was like putting the literal nail in the coffin (I don’t mean to say that so insensitively.) On Caleb’s memory. Maryland was where he spent most of his life, that house was the last place he lived in and by uprooting everyone to LA meant leaving Caleb behind.

Which I think for Katie is what she wanted. Not to forget him but to escape the haunting memories. That house was where he died (right? I heard conflicting stories) and I think that that haunted her. So escaping it by traveling and essentially being in LA more than in Maryland meant that she could be “free” of the demons.

Once they moved to LA they all changed. They lost that normal family living normal lives to having a mindset of materialism fame and vanity. And I think it’s what made them lose their charm. It became all about the LA life and they lost their relatability. I think Billy wanted to stay in the house where Caleb last stood while Katie needed to run literally as far away as she could from there. Remember when Annie cried when they traded in the Infiniti for the Audi (Or was it the truck?) because it was the last car Caleb sat in?

I think that could be a huge factor for Billy selling that house. He isn’t ready to really say goodbye to Caleb and bye officially leaving Maryland and that house it means that he will have to start a new life in California and start it without his son. So that tension of coping in two totally different ways could have been what drew such a huge wedge between them. I can’t think what else would do that.

[KatieTheTerrible]

I feel like the LA move in general was very quick, unexpected and so on. I say this because as you pointed out, they got Luna and Frizbee the month before they “basically moved to LA” as per the title of their vlog. If they had been planning this move, planning to uproot, rebrand, whatever, they wouldn’t have bought Annie a horse. Those things are many thousands of dollars and to buy one for a kid to have for a month is complete nonsense. I know they spoil the girls (even more so after Caleb died), but that’s madness. I do believe that they intended on staying in MD.

DanceMomsNews channel on YouTube shared a comment that someone else pointed out could be a possible reason behind the divorce. As we all noticed it seemed like Billy never moved into the LA house. This particular commentor said that it seems like Billy never wanted to leave Maryland. The girls had a good life there, they were a normal family there, but also leaving Maryland was like putting the literal nail in the coffin (I don’t mean to say that so insensitively.) On Caleb’s memory. Maryland was where he spent most of his life, that house was the last place he lived in and by uprooting everyone to LA meant leaving Caleb behind.

Which I think for Katie is what she wanted. Not to forget him but to escape the haunting memories. That house was where he died (right? I heard conflicting stories) and I think that that haunted her. So escaping it by traveling and essentially being in LA more than in Maryland meant that she could be “free” of the demons.

Once they moved to LA they all changed. They lost that normal family living normal lives to having a mindset of materialism fame and vanity. And I think it’s what made them lose their charm. It became all about the LA life and they lost their relatability. I think Billy wanted to stay in the house where Caleb last stood while Katie needed to run literally as far away as she could from there. Remember when Annie cried when they traded in the Infiniti for the Audi (Or was it the truck?) because it was the last car Caleb sat in?

I think that could be a huge factor for Billy selling that house. He isn’t ready to really say goodbye to Caleb and bye officially leaving Maryland and that house it means that he will have to start a new life in California and start it without his son. So that tension of coping in two totally different ways could have been what drew such a huge wedge between them. I can’t think what else would do that.

Definitely a good point! There is a very high divorce rate for couples who experience the loss of a child. I think often it is related to having conflicting patterns of grieving. Maybe Katie can't focus on the good memories with the physical barriers of his room, his house, the car he sat in, etc, while perhaps Billy can't focus on the good memories without those things.

The LA move is so odd. They got the bunny and horse, then they were in a temporary apartment but acknowledged that Katie and Annie were spending most of their time in LA, then even later than that, Annie quit gymnastics. It's all out of order.

I made that little timeline by scrolling through the thumbnails, so I couldn't figure out exactly how the move went but I recall it started by some trips that were Katie, Annie and Haley. Then Katie and Annie started going and staying for a couple weeks at a time while Annie worked on projects but Haley was still staying back with Billy most of the time. Then eventually Haley was staying with them most of the time, and Billy started to be around about half the time. He was never really around full-time in LA, though, I think. Like, not only did Billy not move into the LA house, it's almost as if he never completely moved to LA at all.

[JorgaDuggar]

I went through and pulled a couple big points from the vlogs to try and see if it's possible to pinpoint when things went south...

Caleb’s passing- Oct 2015
Flair #1- April 2016
Flair #2 - Sept 2016
Increasing trips to LA being- Feb 2017
Annie lvl 9 state gymnastics meet— March 2017
Luna/ Frizbee- March 2017
Haley preforms in the talent show at her brick-and-mortar school- April 2017
Meet Hayden/ “We Basically Live in LA” vlog title- April 2017
Haley quits gymnastics (for dance, hah)- April 2017
Flair #3 - May 2017
Got an LA apartment— May 2017
Little Do You Know music video released- June 2017
Paige moves in/ Mexico mission trip- June 2017
Billy buys Katie an updated wedding/ engagement ring- July 2017
Move LA apartments (to the Beanbag Leap Ledge one) - July 2017
Annie quits gymnastics- August 2017
First episode of Chicken Girls released— Sept 2017
Hannie breakup— March/ April 2018
Announced plans to sell MD house— June 2018


A couple things I noticed:

- To me, it looks like things stayed the same after Caleb died for about two years. The girls got more material things more freely and I feel like Flair was some sort of half-attempt at a girl group, but overall things were fairly stable. Then at the beginning of 2017, they got a taste of LA and I think Katie felt a lot of relief in the escape. Things changed rapidly for all of them from March 2017- September 2017. Then things have just stayed the same since, which their fans seem to notice. There hasn’t been much change, just more music and filming with Brat. Just thinking of all of that is stressful to me— having a normal life, uprooting it and joining the LA life in a matter of a couple month whirlwind, then all of a sudden the chaos stops and you look around and your life is suddenly wildly different from a year ago but there’s not the same hullabaloo to distract you from being homesick and lonely.

- Annie seems like a totally different girl during the LDYK era. She was a lot lighter and happier- granted, she was still pre-teen and also in her first relationship. It’s hard to pinpoint exactly where her mood/ energy changes, but it’s sometime after the LDYK hype. Even just watching the music video, you can just tell she’s lighter and happier. (By lighter, I mean mood— her mood seems so heavy now, not sure of a better way to put it). I do note that this is around the time she quit gymnastics. As others have noted here, the structure and exercise of gymnastics may have been really important in regulating her emotions while she coped with her brother’s death. Perhaps the whirlwind move to LA, quitting gymnastics, becoming a teenager, dealing with a public breakup, or any combination of them are at the root of the sadness she seems to have now.

- I’m not really sure what was bringing them out to LA in the first place. They were going out for Nick meetings and Music.ly events, but otherwise I’m not really sure what the actual plan was. It’s particularly confusing because once they got out there, they got involved with RYH and Brat— but those both seemed opportunistic, like “The LeBlancs live here now, so let’s work with them,” and less so that the LeBlancs move specifically for either brand.

Billy got Katie a new wedding band? Nothing says marriage on the rocks like a new wedding band/renewing your vows.

Also: Katie D ISN'T fat. She's a well muscled endomorph. I'm not into this LOVE YOUR BODY even if you're fat stuff, but Katie isn't fat. She is literally big boned much like the Williams sisters. I bet Annie has a higher BMI than Katie right now.

[Lisatheacrobat]

I disagree. My friends parents renewed their wedding vows on their 25th anniversary. Idk if he bought her a new ring. But I know that they renewed their vows and as far as I know they didn’t have marital issues at all.

Billy buying her a new wedding ring, however, did seem a bit random. Idk if it was a significant day or event or why he did it. They didn’t renew their vows or anything that I’m aware of. All I remember is Paige gushing and squealing like a kid over it and trying it on and talking about getting engaged herself. So I’m not too sure what Billy’s reason behind that was. But I feel like it was a last ditch attempt to get her back. That was back in Maryland though and they hadn’t fully conformed to LA. So idk if that was when tension began? Maybe she told Billy being in that house was too much for her and that created a divide? Idk. But it sure does seem like odd timing.

[Mark]

With all the hammering we've done on Billy in here, it might be surprising when the dust settles that this whole fiasco was all Katie. Of course, I could be wrong.

[KatieTheTerrible]

I disagree. My friends parents renewed their wedding vows on their 25th anniversary. Idk if he bought her a new ring. But I know that they renewed their vows and as far as I know they didn’t have marital issues at all.

Billy buying her a new wedding ring, however, did seem a bit random. Idk if it was a significant day or event or why he did it. They didn’t renew their vows or anything that I’m aware of. All I remember is Paige gushing and squealing like a kid over it and trying it on and talking about getting engaged herself. So I’m not too sure what Billy’s reason behind that was. But I feel like it was a last ditch attempt to get her back. That was back in Maryland though and they hadn’t fully conformed to LA. So idk if that was when tension began? Maybe she told Billy being in that house was too much for her and that created a divide? Idk. But it sure does seem like odd timing.

Yeah, I'm not sure what I think the ring means, just thought it was interesting when I scrolled past the thumbnail. I do remember the whole scene being pretty odd, though. He presented the ring to Katie really unceremoniously. Katie, Paige, Annie, and Haley were all hanging out in someone's bedroom and he walked in and handed it to her just like, "Here." I can't even remember if she really said thank you. She definitely didn't give him a hug or kiss or anything. And she put it on and immediately started admiring it with Paige-- like, he handed it to her and she turned away from him to Paige like, "Lookit what I just got!" It was super bizarre and didn't have an ounce of romance to it.

[Lisatheacrobat]

Yeah! They were in Annie’s room and he just brings it to her like he fetched her a snack. So odd. In that day of scenario it does there is issues and perhaps it was a last ditch attempt to make things right but I think at that point, Katie shad checked out. She was already too wrapped up in the preteen life.

[KatieTheTerrible]

Yeah! They were one Annie’s room and he just brings it to her like he fetched her a snack. So odd. In that day of scenario it does there is issues and perhaps it was a last ditch attempt to make things right but I think at that point, Katie shad checked out. She was already too wrapped up in the preteen life.

The idea that Billy would do something to win back Katie is so odd to me. I can't pinpoint why, but I always felt he wore the pants in that relationship. Probably because Katie seems so flit-ish and childish and is pretty much a pushover. Of the two of them, I don't feel like she's the one to walk away from the relationship. I kind of assumed Billy gave her some sort of ultimatum and and either she said she'd change but never did OR just flat out didn't take the ultimatum. Those are just ideas, though, not based on anything specific I saw.

[Lisatheacrobat]

Yeah! They were one Annie’s room and he just brings it to her like he fetched her a snack. So odd. In that day of scenario it does there is issues and perhaps it was a last ditch attempt to make things right but I think at that point, Katie shad checked out. She was already too wrapped up in the preteen life.

The idea that Billy would do something to win back Katie is so odd to me. I can't pinpoint why, but I always felt he wore the pants in that relationship. Probably because Katie seems so flit-ish and childish and is pretty much a pushover. Of the two of them, I don't feel like she's the one to walk away from the relationship. I kind of assumed Billy gave her some sort of ultimatum and and either she said she'd change but never did OR just flat out didn't take the ultimatum. Those are just ideas, though, not based on anything specific I saw.

That’s not a completely out of there concept honestly. I always felt like Katie was never an authority figure. She was always trying to be the kids friend considering she was the one who filmed them 90% of the time. So she kind of took on a role as one of the kids. Throw in Caleb dying and all that jazz, Annie and her life as an LA “starlet” she really began to retreat back to being a kid.

In the good cop bad cop scenario, I always felt like Katie was the good cop and Billy was the bad. Especially with his military background you would have thought he would like structure and be the leader. Demanding respect from his wife and kids. But oddly not. They both seemed kinda like flakes and after LA, they both just checked out of being parents entirely.

[vmars87]

Don’t waste your breath. That’s a troll. It’s the same person. Who was calling Katie Donnelly fat with “trunk legs” or whatever. They troll a few different subs.

I'm not a troll! I am just as entitled to voice my opinion on this and any other board as you and other contributors are. You may disagree, but that's about all you can do, because you won't make me change my mind on this one. Katie D is carrying excess weight; of that there is NO doubt. Maybe she needs to stop snacking quite so much?

But anyone who says Katie D is not a bit of a porker is simply fooling themselves. They don't want to believe it, ergo they don't believe it!

I think it is really sad that you think katie is fat, I'm not sure who you are or what is going on in your own life, but I feel sorry for you. There are professional athletes with more weight than katie. Katie is very healthy. Being healthy and fit does not mean being stick thin, have you seen professional gymnasts? they have thick legs, because THAT is what they need to do what they do.

[KatieTheTerrible]

I think the thread should stop feeding into any of the comments on K.D.'s weight. She has the internet and she's a smart girl-- we don't want her to see it if she googles it. The rest of us who aren't that one deranged troll can obviously see that K.D. does not have a weight problem, she's healthy and fit, she eats well, and she looks really good in all of her clothes. Her family obviously values health and well-being and I really enjoy watching that aspect of their vlogs as they instill healthy habits in their kids. It's been neat to see the kids get older and take ownership of healthy habits, including K.D. There's not really a need to discuss it any further because there's one lunatic saying unkind things while the rest of us are in obvious, almost confused disagreement (like, I'm genuinely confused why this person is saying these things because I don't see it at all). I vote we don't bring it up again to try and reduce the likelihood K.D. finds this thread if she googles herself! (Using initials to also try and help reduce her finding herself here.)

[RazzleDazzle46]

I know it’s unkikely, but they still own the MD house. I wonder if Annie and Hayley said they are done, period. They may be considering a move back just in case. Brat only has one show for Annie and they flaked in Nick already. I think their old friends would be forgiving.

It won’t happen unless the girls keep skipping meetings and posting inappropriate videos to the point that they have no choice.

This is a very naive post because these girls just can’t quit. That’s not how life works and they have burned most of their bridges in Maryland and now have to pay off multiple mortgages.

These girls are not going back to Maryland that’s just wishful thinking. Too much has been put into the LA dream and the family now love the lifestyle that comes with being millionaires.

I don't agree with this, I fully believe that if they finish up whatever contracts they have, and if they want to quit, they should be able to. Children as bread winners, that's not how life works.

As annoying as they may be, as frustrated as we may get with the girls actions when it comes down to it-

They. Are. Kids.

They are products of their environment, who are puppets, and their parents, the puppet masters. There is no way they grasp the magnitude of what they are doing, or what harm it could potentially do to them, because they are kids who have been immersed in this situation for so long. And if they hypothetically chose to quit and it messed up their finances, that should NOT be held over the heads of a 10 and 14 year old. Because that has never, and should never be their responsibility. Billy and Katie screwed up, and if it came down to this they are(sadly) the adults in the situation, and they would have to suck it up, and figure shit out. And if the girls were to go back to Maryland tomorrow, I think they would be accepted back in the community, I think it's Billy and Katie who would no longer be trusted.