Booktubers Part 10

[Asdf_lurker]

I don't really know if it's fair to say that someone should "just know" that certain scenes may be included in a book just because of the age category. Everything is up to the author, so there's lots of adults books out there without violence or sex but then there's also a lot that have extremely detailed violence and sex/SA scenes, some of them completely out of the blue. If you personally don't need to be worried about how reading about a certain topic or reading a certain scene could affect you, it's really not that hard to skip the warning page. It's inclusion wouldn't affect your reading enjoyment, but it could help someone else who actually needed it which in my opinion is worth some readers flipping an extra page, or just avoiding one in the back with warnings on it.

They should know though. Obviously not all adult books have graphic content, but the point is that they can in a way a middle grade or picture book cannot get away with. That's one part of what makes them different categories. So if you know that gore or sex is a hard limit for you, you should research the books you read. Making standardized ratings printed in or on books isn't just about readers. It's about authors too, and many have expressed why an external mandatory system of content warnings would not be good.

The publishers and booksellers don't even stick to the current age categories. SJM may I remind you (unfortunately), or what about the half dozen adult books I keep seeing in the YA section just because there popular like Gideon the Ninth and its sequel. It's not reliable to say just because it's in the YA section it's appropriate for an actual YA to read anymore. Also, not everyone can or has the time to research every book they want to buy, or are buying for themselves. I've been in plenty of bookstores that have had no reception making on the go research impossible too. And as pointed out in those threads reviewer generated content warnings can be inaccurate to the point of misinformation. Age ratings and content warnings in and on the book take out this guesswork of trying to figure out if it's reliable info or not.

I really do understand authors fear but at the moment only a handful of people are providing content warnings in their books and it varies from book to book on style. I don't see a way that it works as an effective and reliable tool without industry adoption, whether that be an external system or a publisher's own preferred style across their books. But that's me and I know I'm in the minority.

[bcj13]

I don't really know if it's fair to say that someone should "just know" that certain scenes may be included in a book just because of the age category. Everything is up to the author, so there's lots of adults books out there without violence or sex but then there's also a lot that have extremely detailed violence and sex/SA scenes, some of them completely out of the blue. If you personally don't need to be worried about how reading about a certain topic or reading a certain scene could affect you, it's really not that hard to skip the warning page. It's inclusion wouldn't affect your reading enjoyment, but it could help someone else who actually needed it which in my opinion is worth some readers flipping an extra page, or just avoiding one in the back with warnings on it.

They should know though. Obviously not all adult books have graphic content, but the point is that they can in a way a middle grade or picture book cannot get away with. That's one part of what makes them different categories. So if you know that gore or sex is a hard limit for you, you should research the books you read. Making standardized ratings printed in or on books isn't just about readers. It's about authors too, and many have expressed why an external mandatory system of content warnings would not be good.

Not everyone has time to sit at a bookstore and google every book to find their warnings. Also that theory doesn't work for less popular books, like sure it takes me only a few minutes to find the warnings for a SJM book, but for books that have a very small sample of reviews/ratings you might never find the warnings for it because no one bothered to think about writing them down. Reading articles about authors who don't want there to be warnings on their work, some of their complaints is that warnings written by reviewers are inaccurate. That literally could've been avoided by the authors themselves writing their own warnings. I also don't see how warnings would lead to censorship, there's already books who do include it on the decision of the author and it hasn't affected their sales (if I remember correctly Talia Hibbert has warnings in the front of her books, and she is currently one of the most talked about authors in the online book community). Also there's already lots of books written about or featuring scenes that people want trigger warnings for, and they've all been published and many of them have performed well despite the eventual warnings given by readers about their content. Just to me, it really doesn't seem like that big of a deal for warnings to be included but clearly we don't agree so there's not really any use arguing in circles about it.

[greysweatpants20]

They should know though. Obviously not all adult books have graphic content, but the point is that they can in a way a middle grade or picture book cannot get away with. That's one part of what makes them different categories. So if you know that gore or sex is a hard limit for you, you should research the books you read. Making standardized ratings printed in or on books isn't just about readers. It's about authors too, and many have expressed why an external mandatory system of content warnings would not be good.

The publishers and booksellers don't even stick to the current age categories. SJM may I remind you (unfortunately), or what about the half dozen adult books I keep seeing in the YA section just because there popular like Gideon the Ninth and its sequel. It's not reliable to say just because it's in the YA section it's appropriate for an actual YA to read anymore. Also, not everyone can or has the time to research every book they want to buy, or are buying for themselves. I've been in plenty of bookstores that have had no reception making on the go research impossible too. And as pointed out in those threads reviewer generated content warnings can be inaccurate to the point of misinformation. Age ratings and content warnings in and on the book take out this guesswork of trying to figure out if it's reliable info or not.

I really do understand authors fear but at the moment only a handful of people are providing content warnings in their books and it varies from book to book on style. I don't see a way that it works as an effective and reliable tool without industry adoption, whether that be an external system or a publisher's own preferred style across their books. But that's me and I know I'm in the minority.

I think publishers should be held accountable to actually publishing young adult books aimed at teenagers because that's what this issue mostly seems to be stemming from anyways. It's a weird category because it has such a large adult readership that expect to be catered to. The obvious solution, to me, is to move those books up to the adult romance or adult fantasy section where their level of spiciness would be quite mundane. I guess I just don't believe authors should be railroaded and potentially censured based on out of context content warnings because publishers want to publish fairy porn in the YA section.

[BookBird]

Change of topic, but does anyone else think it's weird that Addie LaRue is getting anniversary editions for its first anniversary? There were already like 5 special editions and now there is going to be more. As far as I'm aware it isn't even out in paperback yet.

[Asdf_lurker]

I think publishers should be held accountable to actually publishing young adult books aimed at teenagers because that's what this issue mostly seems to be stemming from anyways. It's a weird category because it has such a large adult readership that expect to be catered to. The obvious solution, to me, is to move those books up to the adult romance or adult fantasy section where their level of spiciness would be quite mundane. I guess I just don't believe authors should be railroaded and potentially censured based on out of context content warnings because publishers want to publish fairy porn in the YA section.

Definitely agree that the problem seems to be mostly stemming from YA. But that doesn’t mean that it’s not helpful for readers to provide cw for adult books either. Many books feature scenes and themes which are not obvious from the synopsis. Outlander might be an example of this “freedom and life are threatened” don’t really indicate how much r-pe went on in that book series - as far as I’m aware, haven’t read it. How many sci-fi and fantasy books include r-pe and other acts of violence just for titlation. And there are some readers who just don’t want that. I might not care either way. But that doesn’t mean other people aren’t affected by that content.

How will they be railroaded though. If a book gets sold to one publisher as YA but ends up having too much adult content to be actually marketed as such, couldn’t they just pass it on to another publisher in their group.

[Asdf_lurker]

Change of topic, but does anyone else think it's weird that Addie LaRue is getting anniversary editions for its first anniversary? There were already like 5 special editions and now there is going to be more. As far as I'm aware it isn't even out in paperback yet.

A little weird but considering how popular that book has been not so much. Gives new readers a chance to buy it if they haven’t already and old readers another edition for their shelf. I think the books sold enough to justify its existence.

[TheBookishBabe]

Personal I disagree I would like content warnings and ratings for books to be normalised. Part of me has been spoiled because fanfiction makes it so easy to find the exact tropes and content you want and don’t want because tagging has normalised this. Half the time I don’t even read the summary on fanfiction only the tags. And the other part is I’m just sick of seeing clearly adult books marketed in the children’s section because they could do so without repercussions.

But I would agree that not everything needs to be a fine grain content warning I would just like broad warnings like terminal illness or death and violence or plus and an age rating. A lot of comics especially manga already do have recommended age ratings so I don’t see the fuss in books having the same.

Is that not what the existing categories (picture books, chapter books, middle grade, ya, and adult) function as? Very loose age recommendations based on the subject matter and language difficult of a book?

YA in particular is a strange area because a large part of the readership is young women, which is pushing the content in the category to older and more explicit content. But that isn't about a lack of ratings and is really only an issue in YA imho. Middle grade and below is usually perfectly appropriate for the age group it targets and if you're reading an adult novel, you should know that extreme violence and sexual content is fair game.

A lot of online adult romance readers in the book community are the most vocal about trigger warnings

[etheralire]

I dont think this has been talked about, I looked through this thread and I apologise if I missed the discussion. But what do you guys think of Booksandlala adding membership for €5.99 (in my currency) and keeping much loved videos like unhauls/vlogs of reading whole triologies behind that paywall.

Her annoucement video, the price (I've seen other youtubers sell memberships for 0.99), and hiding really fun videos behind it really turned me off her as a booktuber, and she used to be my absolute favourite! And I haven't watched a video since out of a sense of unwarrented betrayl. I'm being dumb right ? Should I just go back and enjoy her content? Video for context

[kimberlieek]

I dont think this has been talked about, I looked through this thread and I apologise if I missed the discussion. But what do you guys think of Booksandlala adding membership for €5.99 (in my currency) and keeping much loved videos like unhauls/vlogs of reading whole triologies behind that paywall.

Her annoucement video, the price (I've seen other youtubers sell memberships for 0.99), and hiding really fun videos behind it really turned me off her as a booktuber, and she used to be my absolute favourite! And I haven't watched a video since out of a sense of unwarrented betrayl. I'm being dumb right ? Should I just go back and enjoy her content? Video for context

I did not know it cost that much wow! Like I can't imagine paying that much to watch a couple videos a month. No offence to anyone who does it though. If you have the money, go for it of course. I've always had an issue with youtubers locking content (videos specifically) behind a paywall. Especially when you're watching other videos and they say something like "I talked about this book in my member/patreon video", so you're constantly made aware of the content you're missing out on. It definitely makes you feel like an unvalued viewer. And I understand the youtuber's want to get more money for the work they're putting in, and Kayla specifically is very consistent and takes her channel seriously, but it just puts a bad taste in my mouth. I like when they do like a patreon live show or buddy read or something because that feels separate from just extra videos that you could have put on your youtube, but are choosing to only give to people who pay you. Also for that price I could literally rent a Hollywood movie, and no offence to booktube, but its definitely not the same lmao.

So ya I agree with you, but I also haven't stopped watching her videos because I enjoy them, and finding booktubers I actually like watching at this point is hard

[krranky]

I missed the announcement and am also surprised it's that much. If I'm remembering right from the discussion with Elliot Brooks and BooksLikeWhoa about YouTube earnings, I would've thought BooksAndLala has already been getting a decent amount of money based on the number of views she gets. I don't fault her for trying to get more, especially given the quality of a lot of her videos, but I'm not interested.

[Beware The Wheelers]

Per Statsmash Booksandlala made over $500 last month for her channel. I'm going to assume this doesn't include anything beyond views and advertisements. Not bad for passive income -- but $5.99 for membership? What happened to Patreon? Is there possibility for tiers, or is she truly just asking for $5.99 to be able to view old popular videos?

[BasicBooktuber1]

I'd never fault a YouTuber for creating a membership/Patreon. Most, if not all, of my favourite creators have content behind a paywall. I can't afford to support them, but given the amount of work that goes into maintaining a channel, it's justified. Calling a booktube account a passive income seems insulting given the time and effort maintaining a channel like Kayla's takes. I would guess she's putting full-time hours into her channel so $500 dollars a month is nowhere near equitable compensation for her work.

The only way a lot of creators can even justify the work they do is if they have a stable and reliable source of income like Patreon. It's best to think of Patreon as a tool to allow them to be able to put out free stuff for the rest of us.

[TheBookishBabe]

They can post Patreon all they want but most aren't making content worth paying for.

[TheBookishBabe]

[grilledcheese_]

Kayla has said in a video before that she makes about the same amount from her channel that she does from her FT job. I agree that the $5 is a biiit much, she's one of my favorite YouTuber's and I would love to see some extra content from her but just can't justify that at this time. But I don't think it's necessarily a bad/negative thing that more and more channels are making Patreons/content behind a paywall.

[Beware The Wheelers]

Calling a booktube account a passive income seems insulting given the time and effort maintaining a channel like Kayla's takes.

It’s not an insult, it’s what it is. YouTube provides people with a passive income. Some people can put very little into their videos and make decent money, others do a lot and get very little…but it’s a passive income. And who knows how accurate that amount is. It could be more, or less—but she’s choosing to make these videos, so time spent for the return is on the YTers, not the viewers.

[TheBookishBabe]

Booktube is strange compared to other parts of Youtube in that creators always try to dance around the fact that they're trying to make money. That's why they're pushing Patreons and sponsorships heavily.

[TheBookishBabe]

I will still never understand the obsession to haul hundreds of books they'll never read

[Chana36]

Can chloe stop photoshopping herself into Megan Fox? I've been mainly following her on insta and today I randomly clicked on a video of hers (after at least about 6 months) and I was like who.

[oh_do_tell]

I dont think this has been talked about, I looked through this thread and I apologise if I missed the discussion. But what do you guys think of Booksandlala adding membership for €5.99 (in my currency) and keeping much loved videos like unhauls/vlogs of reading whole triologies behind that paywall.

Her annoucement video, the price (I've seen other youtubers sell memberships for 0.99), and hiding really fun videos behind it really turned me off her as a booktuber, and she used to be my absolute favourite! And I haven't watched a video since out of a sense of unwarrented betrayl. I'm being dumb right ? Should I just go back and enjoy her content? Video for context

I was very disappointed when she anounced it. And it's noticable she has less "free"videos now and they are more boring, since that's what we I guess get when we want free content from her, how rude of us ...
But she has a real job it's not like she lives from yt ... but what do I know, I guess I'm more bitter because I never expected this from her but from these new fake booktubers who do it for money and views.