Booktubers Part 10

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by PumpkinPoison »

Asdf_lurker wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:29 pm
LunarRadiation wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:32 pm


Hm, looks like maybe a more direct influence than others made it out to be, then. My feelings are shifting as I read more. People do use real history as influence but I can see being uncomfortable with this maybe, it's not something that even happened that long ago really. My main take away now is that if he hadn't have been so explicit about his influences it looks like no one would have even been mad, the book seems to have been well received. I think authors and artists sometimes get a little bit caught up talking about their process and don't think about how other people could perceive or feel about it.
I definitely can see why people are uncomfortable with it and that's a valid reason not to read it if you choose. The trauma for Indigenous people around Residential Schools and Missions is kind of specific to their experience - because it was done for the purpose of ethnic genocide - even though there were similar horribly run and abusive orphanages and institutions run by the church or state, like the Magdalene Laundries.

I agree that artist should be conscious of talking about their process and their process in general and where it crosses a line. But also it provides a sense of accountability and history that wasn't there before because no one was talking about their process. For Example, if Emily A. Duncan wasn't so open about her process would people have known that she purposely wrote an antisemitic plotline into her books.

For me though, TJ Klune is a bit murkier until someone goes through the book and says no this part directly references the Scoop and the concept is not just abusive state institutions in general, I personally have no problem with taking broad inspiration from that event. Though didn't he do some other thing - not related to this book. I remember hearing about another controversy before this one - cause I keep passing over his book in the store because of it - but I don't remember what it was about.
I will add my perspective as an Indigenous reader whose tribe is based in Canada and Maine. The information that has come out about Klune's inspiration/process has definitely had an effect on my desire to read his book. I had been highly interested in it for a while, especially because of all the positive praise it had received. But the last government-controlled residential school closed in 1996, just a year before I was born. And I can't help but think that if I had been born in Canada a few years earlier, that being sent to a residential school would be something that could have happened to me or that it could have happened to someone in my family. And his phrasing of "I'm just going to write this as a fantasy" bothers me.

But I accept that this book means a lot to many people and I won't tell someone they are wrong for enjoying the book. Just for me personally, I no longer plan to read The House in the Cerulean Sea and I'm unsure at this point if I want to read any future books from TJ Klune.

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by krranky »

I've noticed that Ariel Bissett has been posting more book-related videos lately after focusing on home buying/renovation content for a while. Does anyone know if the Reading Rush is happening this year?

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by wordsgalore »

krranky wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:45 am
I've noticed that Ariel Bissett has been posting more book-related videos lately after focusing on home buying/renovation content for a while. Does anyone know if the Reading Rush is happening this year?
Honestly it wouldn’t surprise me if they didn’t after what happened last year and the drama surrounding it.

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by idkiguess »

Ok so this is a little long and isn’t about a booktuber but a commenter who I’ve noticed for a little while and was wondering if anybody else has as well…

There’s this middle aged man called John Saxon who comments a lot on Jadeyraereads, Becca and the Books, Ashley from Frolic through fiction, Caz, Maddy from Book Browsing blog- lots of places- and the vibes are just a little…off?

So I first noticed it on one of Jade’s live reading sprints months ago. He made a comment unprompted that was like “oh I just realised I’m 49 and old enough to be your father” Which, on the surface, seems like a pretty innocuous thing to say. But it pricked my ears because I’ve had that happen to me before when men say something like that unprompted about how young you are and it’s always just ??? Ok? What would you like me to do with that information?

So I was like hm ok- forgot about it. Lots of live shows keep happening, I notice some regular names keep popping up, John’s a regular. He’s in Australia so when the lives are happening it the middle of the night for him, one time Jade highlights a comment he makes and says something like “John look after yourself it’s 4am get some sleep”. And then this becomes an in joke thing where John says Jade is treating him like a mother, telling him to go to sleep. He starts calling Jade mum in other video comments, like “love from your son John” like…alright. It squicks me out.

And then once I noticed it he seems to pop up everywhere. He leaves lots of comments about his mental health. And I’m not bagging him for that because it’s been a shitty year for lots of people and reaching out for help shouldn’t be ridiculed. But again it just feels a bit off? On the surface it seems alright but the cynical side of me is cautious about it- seeing as the ones he’s most interactive with happen to be young women in their 20s. And seeing as most of them are UK based, if it was a MH emergency, what does he expect them to do? I just feel like if you were Jade or one of the others hosting a sprint, moderating comments and something like that comes up it puts them in a really uncomfortable position because he’s on the other side of the world- who can they call for crisis help? That’s a horrible position to be left in.

He comments these urgent messages asking if the girls have received his emails, if they don’t acknowledge him on the live he asks the other hosts to ask them if they’ve received his emails.

If one of the booktubers has a readathon he comments and then in the next live again asks if they’ve received his email about not being able to join, like you don’t need to rsvp for a readathon? And again, surface level- it could just be seen as engagement with the channel but- it’s weirdly needy and personal? He did this one time with Becca on someone else’s channel- they were having reading sprints and he kept asking the host to pass onto Becca that he couldn’t do her readathon (she wasn't even on the live).

Another time during a live he was in hospital about to be discharged and was leaving lots of comments thanking the nurses. I remembered that time because I’m like, the nurses can’t see this? People left lots of sympathetic comments. Same thing when one time he said his daughter had just come out and he kept bringing it up a lot in live shows until a host mentions it. And once again, nothing wrong with the comments on the surface- but his daughter isn’t gonna see this?

I guess it gives off ~middle aged person on Facebook vibes~, like wishing you a happy birthday and passing on a hello to your mum at the same time type thing because he leaves comments like “stay safe stay strong love from John”. The comments are never really anything over the line, but seeing the messages as a whole with a pattern of always needing the girls help/attention it’s made me take note.

On Jades most recent live (May 29) someone else called him out when he commented (all in caps) that Jade and Ashley were ignoring him. After that he says he’s leaving because he’s the oldest and only man there and that his “doctors” have told him not to talk to them. Then he says he has a message from his daughter (that she likes the girls’ hair), THEN a message from John’s account of the “daughter” typing saying pray for my dad he’s going to hospital now for 10 days, then “John” jumps back on saying he’s leaving- please pray for him? Is he just saying anything throwing it out there to see what gets an acknowledgment? It was all over the place.

I know that if this bothers me I can just block him so I don’t have to see him. And I’m not really looking for anything to happen but it’s just intriguing to see what he’ll bring up next?

Idk I guess if the girls ok with it on their channel and can handle it it’s fine but I’m just gonna be over here being a bit cynical about it I guess.

So what does everyone else think? Is it just me or does anyone else side-eye this a bit? Obviously booktube skews to a younger, female demographic (at least a lot of the booktubers I like to watch) and a person outside that demo can definitely enjoy and engage with the community but… idk? I feel like telling him to chill and dial down the intensity. Tell me someone else has noticed lol!

Tl:dr - a commenter is very needy for the acknowledgment/ attention of these certain booktubers and it just feels a bit off.

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by ladyboobridgewater »

idkiguess wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:36 am

Tl:dr - a commenter is very needy for the acknowledgment/ attention of these certain booktubers and it just feels a bit off.
This all sounds super duper uncomfortable. I agree that this is probably a benign, lonely guy who means no harm, but he's also definitely developed a VERY strong parasocial relationship with some young women on the internet, and doesn't understand where the line is or that online mutual friendliness in public spaces does not translate to an actual friendship. I've been in a similar position IRL where an older man took my general young-and-friendly-ness as a sign that I was accessible at all time for his various life turmoil's and it got very uncomfortable. At least this guy isn't in the same place as them but I really hope they can draw some gentle boundaries with the guy in case it escalates and get him to find healthier places to direct his friendship.

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by alice2069 »

krranky wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:45 am
I've noticed that Ariel Bissett has been posting more book-related videos lately after focusing on home buying/renovation content for a while. Does anyone know if the Reading Rush is happening this year?
I doubt it's happening, otherwise we definitely would've seen them trying to sell the merch by now.

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by itsa-me »

ladyboobridgewater wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:04 am
idkiguess wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:36 am

Tl:dr - a commenter is very needy for the acknowledgment/ attention of these certain booktubers and it just feels a bit off.
This all sounds super duper uncomfortable. I agree that this is probably a benign, lonely guy who means no harm, but he's also definitely developed a VERY strong parasocial relationship with some young women on the internet, and doesn't understand where the line is or that online mutual friendliness in public spaces does not translate to an actual friendship. I've been in a similar position IRL where an older man took my general young-and-friendly-ness as a sign that I was accessible at all time for his various life turmoil's and it got very uncomfortable. At least this guy isn't in the same place as them but I really hope they can draw some gentle boundaries with the guy in case it escalates and get him to find healthier places to direct his friendship.
I don't see this behavior as benign at this point, not with the kind of behavior escalation that's illustrated. It sounds like this guy is engaging in stalking behavior. Some of his comments seem deliberately manipulative to get the girls to respond out of concern for his health or mental well-being. He's contacting them repeatedly through more than one avenue. He's asking friends of theirs to contact them for him. He gets angry and lashes out when he's ignored. All of those things are textbook stalker behavior, and it could potentially escalate further. I would report and block him if I were them.

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by ignite69 »

I genuinely cannot believe how important some people think Whateverathon is to everyone's lives right now. Can't wait for this readathon to be over.

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by BasicBooktuber1 »

ignite69 wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:20 pm
I genuinely cannot believe how important some people think Whateverathon is to everyone's lives right now. Can't wait for this readathon to be over.
context?

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by Beanies »

idkiguess wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:36 am
I feel like telling him to chill and dial down the intensity. Tell me someone else has noticed lol!

Tl:dr - a commenter is very needy for the acknowledgment/ attention of these certain booktubers and it just feels a bit off.
OK, yes, this, I am so glad I'm not alone in being squicked out. Even if the people he was engaging with weren't young women, some of his behaviour really seems to cross into uncomfortable. Like I remember at one point, I think over several streams, he kept asking apologising and then saying he'd been told by "someone" that he'd done something wrong/offended several of them. And then when they reassured him that he was fine and they didn't know what he was talking about he would then repeat with another person on the stream and they it seemed like they all had to keep stopping to reassure him? I dunno, it made me really uncomfortable because it reminded me of having to carefully placate an ex for fear he was going to do something.

Anyway I just don't go to those streams anymore, the shit he was saying was just too uncomfy.

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by laurasommeils »

Beanies wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:16 am
idkiguess wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:36 am
I feel like telling him to chill and dial down the intensity. Tell me someone else has noticed lol!

Tl:dr - a commenter is very needy for the acknowledgment/ attention of these certain booktubers and it just feels a bit off.
OK, yes, this, I am so glad I'm not alone in being squicked out. Even if the people he was engaging with weren't young women, some of his behaviour really seems to cross into uncomfortable. Like I remember at one point, I think over several streams, he kept asking apologising and then saying he'd been told by "someone" that he'd done something wrong/offended several of them. And then when they reassured him that he was fine and they didn't know what he was talking about he would then repeat with another person on the stream and they it seemed like they all had to keep stopping to reassure him? I dunno, it made me really uncomfortable because it reminded me of having to carefully placate an ex for fear he was going to do something.

Anyway I just don't go to those streams anymore, the shit he was saying was just too uncomfy.
He sounds really creepy.

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by idkiguess »

ladyboobridgewater wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:04 am
idkiguess wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:36 am

Tl:dr - a commenter is very needy for the acknowledgment/ attention of these certain booktubers and it just feels a bit off.
I've been in a similar position IRL where an older man took my general young-and-friendly-ness as a sign that I was accessible at all time for his various life turmoil's and it got very uncomfortable.
Right! I've been in in that exact position before and this reminds me so much of it! And what gets me is that if you then call it out it makes you look like the bitch because everything he's doing makes you uncomfortable but is never explicit?

Beanies wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:16 am
idkiguess wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:36 am
I feel like telling him to chill and dial down the intensity. Tell me someone else has noticed lol!

Tl:dr - a commenter is very needy for the acknowledgment/ attention of these certain booktubers and it just feels a bit off.
OK, yes, this, I am so glad I'm not alone in being squicked out. Even if the people he was engaging with weren't young women, some of his behaviour really seems to cross into uncomfortable. Like I remember at one point, I think over several streams, he kept asking apologising and then saying he'd been told by "someone" that he'd done something wrong/offended several of them. And then when they reassured him that he was fine and they didn't know what he was talking about he would then repeat with another person on the stream and they it seemed like they all had to keep stopping to reassure him? I dunno, it made me really uncomfortable because it reminded me of having to carefully placate an ex for fear he was going to do something.

Anyway I just don't go to those streams anymore, the shit he was saying was just too uncomfy.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one! I thought time and time again when I kept seeing him that I was being too harsh, but man when your gut is telling you something is off...

I think I remember that live as well- it was all very involved with him and like you say lots of placating. Also that kind of instance is why I doubt someone telling him to chill would just backfire because I feel he'd turn it into him being the victim and he would mention it heaps and get lots of sympathy comments and he'd bring it up over and over again.

I'm sorry you don't go to the liveshows anymore, that sucks. I'm starting to avoid Jade's channel because I feel he's always acting up the worst on there (all the "mum" stuff). It makes me uncomfortable as well. I found a new booktuber I hadn't seen before who's co-hosting a read-along for a book series I've been wanting to read for ages and was like great! I watched her new video today, then scrolled down to the comments and lo and behold there's John calling her a "beautiful queen" and saying he loves her and I'm like great, he's gonna show up to these new readalong liveshows as well and make it weird and uncomfortable!

I feel like we should have an emoji if one of us sees him out in the wild on a live making it uncomfortable that's like the equivalent of the "this guy bothering you" look you give your friends when you go out lol (I mean I'm joking...kinda lol)

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by TheBookishBabe »

Booktube has been surprisingly quiet

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by heretoreadthings »

Is it just me or do you also think it's too early to do a 'Mid Year Book Freak Out' when you're technically not done with half the year? 😂

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by TheBookishBabe »

I feel like people in the online book community and over protective mothers are the main ones who care about book content warnings. And people list a warning for everything nowdays. No a book does not need a content warning because a character has an uncurable genetic disorder they live with everyday.



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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by TheBookishBabe »

For someone who said she prefers to stay out of reviewer spaces Alexa Donne sure shows up to every reviewer related discussion Mara, Jess, and Bethany have

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by Asdf_lurker »

TheBookishBabe wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:06 pm
I feel like people in the online book community and over protective mothers are the main ones who care about book content warnings. And people list a warning for everything nowdays. No a book does not need a content warning because a character has an uncurable genetic disorder they live with everyday.


Personal I disagree I would like content warnings and ratings for books to be normalised. Part of me has been spoiled because fanfiction makes it so easy to find the exact tropes and content you want and don’t want because tagging has normalised this. Half the time I don’t even read the summary on fanfiction only the tags. And the other part is I’m just sick of seeing clearly adult books marketed in the children’s section because they could do so without repercussions.

But I would agree that not everything needs to be a fine grain content warning I would just like broad warnings like terminal illness or death and violence or plus and an age rating. A lot of comics especially manga already do have recommended age ratings so I don’t see the fuss in books having the same.

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by greysweatpants20 »

Asdf_lurker wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:43 pm
TheBookishBabe wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:06 pm
I feel like people in the online book community and over protective mothers are the main ones who care about book content warnings. And people list a warning for everything nowdays. No a book does not need a content warning because a character has an uncurable genetic disorder they live with everyday.


Personal I disagree I would like content warnings and ratings for books to be normalised. Part of me has been spoiled because fanfiction makes it so easy to find the exact tropes and content you want and don’t want because tagging has normalised this. Half the time I don’t even read the summary on fanfiction only the tags. And the other part is I’m just sick of seeing clearly adult books marketed in the children’s section because they could do so without repercussions.

But I would agree that not everything needs to be a fine grain content warning I would just like broad warnings like terminal illness or death and violence or plus and an age rating. A lot of comics especially manga already do have recommended age ratings so I don’t see the fuss in books having the same.
Is that not what the existing categories (picture books, chapter books, middle grade, ya, and adult) function as? Very loose age recommendations based on the subject matter and language difficult of a book?

YA in particular is a strange area because a large part of the readership is young women, which is pushing the content in the category to older and more explicit content. But that isn't about a lack of ratings and is really only an issue in YA imho. Middle grade and below is usually perfectly appropriate for the age group it targets and if you're reading an adult novel, you should know that extreme violence and sexual content is fair game.

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by bcj13 »

greysweatpants20 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:07 pm
Asdf_lurker wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:43 pm


Personal I disagree I would like content warnings and ratings for books to be normalised. Part of me has been spoiled because fanfiction makes it so easy to find the exact tropes and content you want and don’t want because tagging has normalised this. Half the time I don’t even read the summary on fanfiction only the tags. And the other part is I’m just sick of seeing clearly adult books marketed in the children’s section because they could do so without repercussions.

But I would agree that not everything needs to be a fine grain content warning I would just like broad warnings like terminal illness or death and violence or plus and an age rating. A lot of comics especially manga already do have recommended age ratings so I don’t see the fuss in books having the same.
Is that not what the existing categories (picture books, chapter books, middle grade, ya, and adult) function as? Very loose age recommendations based on the subject matter and language difficult of a book?

YA in particular is a strange area because a large part of the readership is young women, which is pushing the content in the category to older and more explicit content. But that isn't about a lack of ratings and is really only an issue in YA imho. Middle grade and below is usually perfectly appropriate for the age group it targets and if you're reading an adult novel, you should know that extreme violence and sexual content is fair game.
I don't really know if it's fair to say that someone should "just know" that certain scenes may be included in a book just because of the age category. Everything is up to the author, so there's lots of adults books out there without violence or sex but then there's also a lot that have extremely detailed violence and sex/SA scenes, some of them completely out of the blue. If you personally don't need to be worried about how reading about a certain topic or reading a certain scene could affect you, it's really not that hard to skip the warning page. It's inclusion wouldn't affect your reading enjoyment, but it could help someone else who actually needed it which in my opinion is worth some readers flipping an extra page, or just avoiding one in the back with warnings on it.

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Re: Booktubers Part 10

Post by greysweatpants20 »

bcj13 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:58 pm
greysweatpants20 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:07 pm


Is that not what the existing categories (picture books, chapter books, middle grade, ya, and adult) function as? Very loose age recommendations based on the subject matter and language difficult of a book?

YA in particular is a strange area because a large part of the readership is young women, which is pushing the content in the category to older and more explicit content. But that isn't about a lack of ratings and is really only an issue in YA imho. Middle grade and below is usually perfectly appropriate for the age group it targets and if you're reading an adult novel, you should know that extreme violence and sexual content is fair game.
I don't really know if it's fair to say that someone should "just know" that certain scenes may be included in a book just because of the age category. Everything is up to the author, so there's lots of adults books out there without violence or sex but then there's also a lot that have extremely detailed violence and sex/SA scenes, some of them completely out of the blue. If you personally don't need to be worried about how reading about a certain topic or reading a certain scene could affect you, it's really not that hard to skip the warning page. It's inclusion wouldn't affect your reading enjoyment, but it could help someone else who actually needed it which in my opinion is worth some readers flipping an extra page, or just avoiding one in the back with warnings on it.
They should know though. Obviously not all adult books have graphic content, but the point is that they can in a way a middle grade or picture book cannot get away with. That's one part of what makes them different categories. So if you know that gore or sex is a hard limit for you, you should research the books you read. Making standardized ratings printed in or on books isn't just about readers. It's about authors too, and many have expressed why an external mandatory system of content warnings would not be good.

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