Welcome to the SuperMaryFace Pet FAQ of GuruGossiper!
Sadly, a decent amount of people who end up on this forum, found this place after questions or instances with pets. We thought it would be helpful to make one comprehensive overview about Mary and Ken’s pets, former and current, for newcomers.
Unfortunately there have been a LOT of pets, and there is a LOT to say about some. I will sub-divide this FAQ into different posts about different animals and subjects.
Things will keep happening, evolving and changing within this subject overtime and so posts will eventually be a bit all over the place, but at least the story so far (July 2017) will remain all organized in the first load of posts here. Please note that at the time of this FAQ being created, they have 1 new snake left to announce the name of, and so in these initial FAQ posts that one snake (the Banana Leopard Spider morph) will forever be "[Unknown]".
All evidence and points on this subjects are very welcome on this forum, but please, since this is an FAQ thread and not a discussion thread... if you want something added to this thread, run it by us folks in the latest SuperMaryFace general discussion thread!
Thank you for reading,
Amy
FAQ - Pets Edition
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Re: FAQ - Pets Edition
The Rats
Names: Shredder and Master Splinter
Source: Mary claims she rescued them from a broom closet in the back of a PetSmart
Timeline: adopted March 2014, given away in May 2015
According to Mary (in her vlog “What Happened To The Rats?! Updates Vlog”) the rats lived in the back of a PetSmart because they weren’t getting adopted and were getting too old to sell easily. Mary said they lived in ‘basically a broom closet’ in a little box and when animals end up there, they get given away for free. Mary states in this video that the rats were 2 (or almost 2) years old when she adopted them, however in the original video introducing the rats ("Shredder and Splinter" from 1 April 2014 on the AmeriKen channel) Ken stated they were less than 1 year old when adopted.
When Ken and Mary moved to Mississippi in May 2015, Mary states she went to the vet and the vet 'basically said' that the rats were too old to travel by plane (rats would only be allowed in the cargo area) and they would not survive the trip at their age. She explains the airplane was the only option to transport the rats to Mississippi, as it is not allowed in the US to send rodents by mail. It was not explained why a road trip was not considered.
Mary states she could not figure out what to do with the rats, and then last minute Ken put up on Twitter if anyone wanted their rats. Her friend Devon, who is a make-up artist and already had other rats, said she would take them in "and would let Mary see them every time she visited LA".
A few months later Mary flies back to LA from Mississippi to attend VidCon 2015 (vlog "Vidcon 2015 - SO MANY YOUTUBERS" on her channel) and in her vlog she meets up with Devon, but says she probably won't be able to go visit the rats, though, because she and Devon have both been sick and she's leaving soon.
Rats are known to be incredibly social creatures (and can also be incredibly intelligent) - they form strong bonds with their owners. It has been questioned why they were left behind when there was another transport option that was never mentioned, as the separation would have most definitely affected the rats.
Names: Shredder and Master Splinter
Source: Mary claims she rescued them from a broom closet in the back of a PetSmart
Timeline: adopted March 2014, given away in May 2015
According to Mary (in her vlog “What Happened To The Rats?! Updates Vlog”) the rats lived in the back of a PetSmart because they weren’t getting adopted and were getting too old to sell easily. Mary said they lived in ‘basically a broom closet’ in a little box and when animals end up there, they get given away for free. Mary states in this video that the rats were 2 (or almost 2) years old when she adopted them, however in the original video introducing the rats ("Shredder and Splinter" from 1 April 2014 on the AmeriKen channel) Ken stated they were less than 1 year old when adopted.
When Ken and Mary moved to Mississippi in May 2015, Mary states she went to the vet and the vet 'basically said' that the rats were too old to travel by plane (rats would only be allowed in the cargo area) and they would not survive the trip at their age. She explains the airplane was the only option to transport the rats to Mississippi, as it is not allowed in the US to send rodents by mail. It was not explained why a road trip was not considered.
Mary states she could not figure out what to do with the rats, and then last minute Ken put up on Twitter if anyone wanted their rats. Her friend Devon, who is a make-up artist and already had other rats, said she would take them in "and would let Mary see them every time she visited LA".
A few months later Mary flies back to LA from Mississippi to attend VidCon 2015 (vlog "Vidcon 2015 - SO MANY YOUTUBERS" on her channel) and in her vlog she meets up with Devon, but says she probably won't be able to go visit the rats, though, because she and Devon have both been sick and she's leaving soon.
Rats are known to be incredibly social creatures (and can also be incredibly intelligent) - they form strong bonds with their owners. It has been questioned why they were left behind when there was another transport option that was never mentioned, as the separation would have most definitely affected the rats.
Shredder. Master Splinter. Jackie. Boss. Pancake.
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Re: FAQ - Pets Edition
Adoption VS Purchase
A fairly wide objection to Mary’s pet hoarding is that her ethics have been hypocritical – this applies to pretty much all of her pets. Mary always got on soapboxes about adopting/rescuing animals from shelters, and still claims to be so deeply affected by the wellbeing of animals because she loves them so much. Momentarily disregarding her hatred for turkeys (don’t worry, it’s an inside joke), she has shown time and time again to not be affected by animal wellbeing issues enough to sacrifice anything herself.
Out of the 17 animals she has had since she moved to the US almost 4 years ago, 14 came from breeders, 1 supposedly came from a flea market (Betty) and 2 she supposedly “saved” from being locked in a broom closet in the back of a Petsmart (Shredder and Master Splinter). The fact remains that Betty was not rescued from a shelter, and the rats came from Petsmart.
The Corgis
Betty
Names: Betty Brutal
Source: "Flea Market"
Timeline: purchased January 2014, still owned
Overall care and training for Betty has seemed fairly solid to everyone watching. The only questionable thing in this case is that they got a full bred Corgi puppy at a flea market... this has been seriously questioned; even if flea markets sell corgi puppies, they are probably stolen - unless of course there is a breeder at the flea market selling their puppies.
Jackie
Names: Jackie Jalapeno
Source: Breeder
Timeline: purchased January 2015, given away October 2015
In the video introducing Jackie, Mary put a disclaimed in the video description; she wanted to adopt a dog from a shelter, but Ken wanted a breeder puppy - so do as she says, not as she does:
Ken and Mary only kept Jackie for about 8 months and eventually gave her away due to stated "behavioural issues". Any tweets or videos directly addressing the process of them giving Jackie away seem to have been removed, but overtime they have said on streams that Jackie was "too territorial", aggressive towards Betty, and that they had tried everything but nothing was improving it. Jackie was still at a puppy age, and from what had been said at the time it was understood that they were a little later with desexing Jackie than they had wanted... which could have aggravated territorial behaviour towards other female dogs (Betty).
The only reference that can still be found to their giving Jackie away is this image:
Boss was adopted within weeks of them giving Jackie away.
Recently, Mary has claimed that the reason why Jackie had behavioral issues was because of "neurological problems" (SuperMaryFace channel, “PostPartum Recovery | 11 Days Post” vlog from 16 May 2017). Mary and Ken defensively claimed that all other options had been explored prior to giving Jackie away, and that experts were consulted and Jackie could not be trained.
Neurological problems in dogs that cause these types of behavioural issues are generally treatable - a veterinary technician has confirmed in the discussion regarding Jackie that aggression and behavioural problems can MOST of the time be fixed using the help of a behaviourist and lots of training (this would require more time than Jackie would have been given, considering they had her for less than a year as a puppy still). Sometimes there are dogs that are straight up aggressive and can't be fixed, but in most cases they can - it just takes dedication and time. If it truly was a neurological problem, around 90% of dogs and cats with neurologic problems can get treatment to resolve their issues.
The problem is that it has been visible on video - especially with Boss - that Ken and Mary are fairly ineffective at training dogs. They got a puppy from a breeder (after preaching about adoption), the puppy got desexed a little late and so it got too sassy, they were unable to regain control over her behaviour and gave her away... if proper professional help had been sought, Jackie wouldn't have been gone as quickly as she was. The fact that they blamed their own poor training efforts on Jackie having a neurological defect is fairly offensive to the sensibilities of any owner who loves their pet...
A fairly wide objection to Mary’s pet hoarding is that her ethics have been hypocritical – this applies to pretty much all of her pets. Mary always got on soapboxes about adopting/rescuing animals from shelters, and still claims to be so deeply affected by the wellbeing of animals because she loves them so much. Momentarily disregarding her hatred for turkeys (don’t worry, it’s an inside joke), she has shown time and time again to not be affected by animal wellbeing issues enough to sacrifice anything herself.
Out of the 17 animals she has had since she moved to the US almost 4 years ago, 14 came from breeders, 1 supposedly came from a flea market (Betty) and 2 she supposedly “saved” from being locked in a broom closet in the back of a Petsmart (Shredder and Master Splinter). The fact remains that Betty was not rescued from a shelter, and the rats came from Petsmart.
The Corgis
Betty
Names: Betty Brutal
Source: "Flea Market"
Timeline: purchased January 2014, still owned
Overall care and training for Betty has seemed fairly solid to everyone watching. The only questionable thing in this case is that they got a full bred Corgi puppy at a flea market... this has been seriously questioned; even if flea markets sell corgi puppies, they are probably stolen - unless of course there is a breeder at the flea market selling their puppies.
Jackie
Names: Jackie Jalapeno
Source: Breeder
Timeline: purchased January 2015, given away October 2015
In the video introducing Jackie, Mary put a disclaimed in the video description; she wanted to adopt a dog from a shelter, but Ken wanted a breeder puppy - so do as she says, not as she does:
Ken and Mary only kept Jackie for about 8 months and eventually gave her away due to stated "behavioural issues". Any tweets or videos directly addressing the process of them giving Jackie away seem to have been removed, but overtime they have said on streams that Jackie was "too territorial", aggressive towards Betty, and that they had tried everything but nothing was improving it. Jackie was still at a puppy age, and from what had been said at the time it was understood that they were a little later with desexing Jackie than they had wanted... which could have aggravated territorial behaviour towards other female dogs (Betty).
The only reference that can still be found to their giving Jackie away is this image:
Boss was adopted within weeks of them giving Jackie away.
Recently, Mary has claimed that the reason why Jackie had behavioral issues was because of "neurological problems" (SuperMaryFace channel, “PostPartum Recovery | 11 Days Post” vlog from 16 May 2017). Mary and Ken defensively claimed that all other options had been explored prior to giving Jackie away, and that experts were consulted and Jackie could not be trained.
Neurological problems in dogs that cause these types of behavioural issues are generally treatable - a veterinary technician has confirmed in the discussion regarding Jackie that aggression and behavioural problems can MOST of the time be fixed using the help of a behaviourist and lots of training (this would require more time than Jackie would have been given, considering they had her for less than a year as a puppy still). Sometimes there are dogs that are straight up aggressive and can't be fixed, but in most cases they can - it just takes dedication and time. If it truly was a neurological problem, around 90% of dogs and cats with neurologic problems can get treatment to resolve their issues.
The problem is that it has been visible on video - especially with Boss - that Ken and Mary are fairly ineffective at training dogs. They got a puppy from a breeder (after preaching about adoption), the puppy got desexed a little late and so it got too sassy, they were unable to regain control over her behaviour and gave her away... if proper professional help had been sought, Jackie wouldn't have been gone as quickly as she was. The fact that they blamed their own poor training efforts on Jackie having a neurological defect is fairly offensive to the sensibilities of any owner who loves their pet...
Shredder. Master Splinter. Jackie. Boss. Pancake.
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Re: FAQ - Pets Edition
At this point (4 pets in), we need to pause and point out that in less than 4 years, they have managed to hoard 17 pets, none of which are from a shelter:
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[/b][/size]
Shredder. Master Splinter. Jackie. Boss. Pancake.
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Re: FAQ - Pets Edition
Jackie: Continued
All traces of Jackie being given away seem to have been removed from Ken and Mary's social media and channels. The only trace I could still find is some references to a video that no longer exists:
These tweets can be found here: https://twitter.com/majinichigo666/stat ... 7812742144
[tweet][/tweet]
another tweet referring to the same video:
[tweet][/tweet]
The video linked in Mary's response tweet has been deleted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3wecYz0IbU
According to a fan post on Ken's Facebook page, this video was called "Tough times but it'll be okay." - https://www.facebook.com/CToastKen/post ... 6309273838
This third party website links above video with the above mentioned title and also shows the video has been deleted: http://www.online-games.co/video/watch. ... =9ebb39e84
It is unclear why Mary and Ken decided to delete the video explaining what happened if they believe they had a legitimate reason and made the correct decision. I think we've all made tough decisions for or regarding our pets, and I don't know about you, but I will defend them to the moon and back... not hide them.
All traces of Jackie being given away seem to have been removed from Ken and Mary's social media and channels. The only trace I could still find is some references to a video that no longer exists:
These tweets can be found here: https://twitter.com/majinichigo666/stat ... 7812742144
[tweet][/tweet]
another tweet referring to the same video:
[tweet][/tweet]
The video linked in Mary's response tweet has been deleted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3wecYz0IbU
According to a fan post on Ken's Facebook page, this video was called "Tough times but it'll be okay." - https://www.facebook.com/CToastKen/post ... 6309273838
This third party website links above video with the above mentioned title and also shows the video has been deleted: http://www.online-games.co/video/watch. ... =9ebb39e84
It is unclear why Mary and Ken decided to delete the video explaining what happened if they believe they had a legitimate reason and made the correct decision. I think we've all made tough decisions for or regarding our pets, and I don't know about you, but I will defend them to the moon and back... not hide them.
Shredder. Master Splinter. Jackie. Boss. Pancake.
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Re: FAQ - Pets Edition
Disclaimer: Sadly a lot of “evidence” regarding issues with Boss were shown and/or disclosed during Mary’s Twitch streams between October 2016 and January 2017; some of the things she spoke about were not mentioned on other media, and old Twitch streams sadly disappear quickly. By the time we realized what had really happened, the streams were already too old to retrieve. However anyone who saw the streams would be able to truthfully confirm these things happened.
Boss
Names: Boss
Source: Breeder (Newfoundland)
Timeline: purchased October 2015 – current pet
There is a lot to say about Boss’ situation – because we believe this is really important information and we want it to be accessible (and not an overwhelming wall of text) this post has been divided up in sections and each section is in a spoiler, so you can open and close whatever section you are interested in one by one.
Index
Section 1 - Timeline - Purchase to Passport Incident
Section 2 - Timeline - Being Locked Outside Permanently
Section 3 - Incident - Twitter Rage
Section 4 - Information - Why this is wrong.
Sections 1 and 2 only detail the timeline and section 3 shows an incident where Mary seemingly tried to hide the truth - but if you want to skip straight to the important information (why we think Ken and Mary are doing something very wrong here) go ahead and skip straight to section 4.
SECTION 1: TIMELINE - PURCHASE TO “PASSPORT INCIDENT“
SECTION 2: BEING LOCKED OUTSIDE PERMANENTLY
SECTION 3: TWITTER RAGE
SECTION 4: WHY THIS IS WRONG
Boss
Names: Boss
Source: Breeder (Newfoundland)
Timeline: purchased October 2015 – current pet
There is a lot to say about Boss’ situation – because we believe this is really important information and we want it to be accessible (and not an overwhelming wall of text) this post has been divided up in sections and each section is in a spoiler, so you can open and close whatever section you are interested in one by one.
Index
Section 1 - Timeline - Purchase to Passport Incident
Section 2 - Timeline - Being Locked Outside Permanently
Section 3 - Incident - Twitter Rage
Section 4 - Information - Why this is wrong.
Sections 1 and 2 only detail the timeline and section 3 shows an incident where Mary seemingly tried to hide the truth - but if you want to skip straight to the important information (why we think Ken and Mary are doing something very wrong here) go ahead and skip straight to section 4.
SECTION 1: TIMELINE - PURCHASE TO “PASSPORT INCIDENT“
SECTION 2: BEING LOCKED OUTSIDE PERMANENTLY
Shredder. Master Splinter. Jackie. Boss. Pancake.
Re: FAQ - Pets Edition
Hi ! Thanks for this thread!
I just wanted to say, sometimes we keep following a youtuber not because we really think they're the most interesting or anything, but simply because we don't know any other youtubers that do the things that we are interested in ex: have cool pets.
Anyways today I found a youtuber who has lots of pets and really cares for them and knows how to take care of pets in general. It's refreshing.
and because I think it's so unfair people like Mary get views just because they happened to be with a popular youtuber, here is the other girl I am talking about:
"Maddie Smith"
She has all kinds of pets including reptiles and she shows here how she cares for them.
Anyway I wish we can encourage these people who actually know what they are talking about and make efforts in their videos.
I just wanted to say, sometimes we keep following a youtuber not because we really think they're the most interesting or anything, but simply because we don't know any other youtubers that do the things that we are interested in ex: have cool pets.
Anyways today I found a youtuber who has lots of pets and really cares for them and knows how to take care of pets in general. It's refreshing.
and because I think it's so unfair people like Mary get views just because they happened to be with a popular youtuber, here is the other girl I am talking about:
"Maddie Smith"
She has all kinds of pets including reptiles and she shows here how she cares for them.
Anyway I wish we can encourage these people who actually know what they are talking about and make efforts in their videos.
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Re: FAQ - Pets Edition
I’m not sure when, but we will be updating this thread at some point with ALL the information about the snakes.imjustcurious wrote:Well I guess major update for this thread: pancake died.
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Re: FAQ - Pets Edition
Hey guys, just a general reminder that this thread is not a discussion thread. The update is appreciated, imjustcurious, but like Amy said in the first post, please run things by us before you post more information on here. This goes for anyone else who comes across here.
Hopefully, there will be a post giving information about all of the snakes very soon.
Hopefully, there will be a post giving information about all of the snakes very soon.
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Re: FAQ - Pets Edition
THE SNAKES
a – Criticisms
b – List of all their snakes
c – Racks/Drawers Pros and Cons
d – Breeder Connections
a – Criticisms
Below you can find criticisms regarding Mary’s snakes in detail, with information to back up the criticisms. But in case you are not that interested in snakes and simply want the lowdown…
* Spending Money on Snakes in Hard Times?
Ken and Mary purchased 7 snakes (worth between $3000 and $5000 alltogether) during a time when they were emphasizing their concerns and worries about finances in the context of asking for Patreon support. Mary has explained this away stating the snakes are an investment for when she can start breeding them in 3-5 years. But they have also mentioned she may change her mind about this, and breeding can be done (profitably) with far less than 10 snakes.
* Concerns about Storage
Mary and Ken are storing their snakes in a drawer system, which is definitely NOT seen as an acceptable storage method by everyone – criticisms are as valid as the arguments FOR it. Additionally, their snakes specifically are stored in drawers that are simply too small – the drawer’s length and width need to be AT LEAST as long as the snake’s total length. That is NOT the case for all their snakes, and additionally there is vlog footage of humidity dripping off the drawer walls, suggesting humidity regulation is not being done properly. Their snakes have also been covered in their own feaces, with Mary suggesting snakes find this enjoyable; it is actually very poor hygiene and a sign that they do not have enough room.
* Morph choices
Some of the morphs Mary has chosen have significant genetic health issues that would be passed on if she breeds them. ALL Spider morphs have what is called “the wobble” (for more information see below in the inventory) – many Champagne morphs also have this issue. Breeding between Champagne and Spider genes has been known to cause lethal health issues.
* Mary’s “Breeder Friends”
Ken addressed that Mary knows what she is doing regarding snake care and breeding because she has “breeder friends”. One of her highest profile “breeder friends” is Brian Barczyk who has been widely criticized within the reptile community himself for his breeding practises and the animals he keeps (there is additional information about him below). Brian is also a fervent supporter of the rack/drawer system, and has also specifically been criticized for HIS rack systems.
b – Inventory
Name Sex Species & Morph Acquisition
Benjamin M Ball Python – Pastel Ivory June 2015
Meryl F Ball Python – VPI Axanthic March 2016
Greta F Woma Python September 2016
Reginald M Ball Python – Cinnamon Banana April 2017
Pancake F Ball Python – Highway April 2017
Bonnie F Ball Python – Pastel Ivory April 2017
Waffles F Ball Python – Champagne Pinstripe July 2017
Poptart F Ball Python – Piebald July 2017
Helen? F Ball Python – Banana Leopard Spider July 2017
William M Ball Python – Killer Bee Het Pied July 2017
* Please note the last few snakes were supposedly named by Patreon but some names were changed or not announced, so at this stage it is hard to determine every name with certainty. Also please note above list was made before Pancake passed away in December 2017.
There has been a bit of discussion regarding Ken and Mary purchasing multiple snakes right before and after Layla’s birth while still expressing concerns about finances to encourage Patreon donations. Unfortunately it is difficult to determine how much these snakes cost with a firm degree of certainty. These python species can range in price between $200 and $10,000 depending on:
* Sex
* Age
* Favourable gene counts
* Popularity and rareness of morphs
* Breeder reputation and chosen pricing
Thanks to LurkieLou, you can read more about Spider morph issues below:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... or_welfare
http://wheremyscalesslither.tumblr.com/ ... the-wobble
c – Racks/Drawers
Opinions about snake racks/drawer systems vary widely inside the reptile community. There is no definitive evidence at this stage firmly for or against this method of keeping snakes.
PROS
+ Ball Pythons are a defensive species and are most comfortable hiding
+ It is easier to regulate temperature and humidity in a drawer, as opposed to an aquarium
+ Drawers are easy to move around and keep clean/sterile for the owners
+ Ball Pythons have no inherent need to burrow – climbing and swimming are not requirements
+ All snakes technically require is heat, security and food
CONS
- Tubs/drawers need to be AT LEAST the length of the snake in length plus width; with often curled up species like Ball Pythons it is difficult to monitor if they outgrow their drawers.
- When stacked away in racks, it is VERY easy to miss alarming behaviour/signs that indicate your snake may not be healthy; certain physical, visible behaviours indicate a need for medical attention.
- There are NO scientific studies regarding long term of multi-generational effects of any snakes, including Ball Pythons, barely using their muscles and practically never stretching out.
- “Preferred state” is not the same as “required permanent state” – ball pythons may prefer hiding, in the wild they still travel considerable distances to mate, eat and hide again. Them enjoying hiding does not mean that hiding and barely moving their entire lives is what is best for them.
- There are licensed and experienced breeders who say NON-drawer snakes are simply more well adjusted and friendly than snakes who spend their lives in racks.
d – Breeder Connections
Mary has appeared in videos with breeder and YouTuber Brian Barczyk. Brian has received his own share of criticism from inside the reptile community that is worth considering.
* Brian keeps both lizards and snakes in drawers that some have argued are far too small.
* Brian also keeps his very large snakes (including a reticulated python) in drawers – these are python species who are known to travel and climb extensively in the wild.
* Brian has allowed his large pythons to breed, even though he has said himself that he should not have done so because homing such large pythons responsibly is near impossible.
* Brian has an alligator himself, which he keeps in a small kiddie pool, and extensively showcases the alligator as a fun pet on his channel even though he says they should not be pets.
* Brian has been criticized after the deaths of some of his animals, with other experts implying he was at fault in the situation, and he has written that feedback off as “hate”.
* He has an incredibly high amount of reptiles, breeds a LOT, and subsequently he has been accused of slacking on checking on the health and living conditions of his animals.
For a critical perspective on Brian’s ethtics, you can go here:
https://fucknobadbreeders.tumblr.com/po ... -a-problem
I myself have an additional objection to Brian as a breeder and “source of advice” – in his videos you can see he handles his snakes quite roughly, and occasionally for fun will even “see how far he can go until it bites”. Though he may think it is harmless to show people that snake bites are no big deal, I simply see no reason to purposely stress out your reptiles.
a – Criticisms
b – List of all their snakes
c – Racks/Drawers Pros and Cons
d – Breeder Connections
a – Criticisms
Below you can find criticisms regarding Mary’s snakes in detail, with information to back up the criticisms. But in case you are not that interested in snakes and simply want the lowdown…
* Spending Money on Snakes in Hard Times?
Ken and Mary purchased 7 snakes (worth between $3000 and $5000 alltogether) during a time when they were emphasizing their concerns and worries about finances in the context of asking for Patreon support. Mary has explained this away stating the snakes are an investment for when she can start breeding them in 3-5 years. But they have also mentioned she may change her mind about this, and breeding can be done (profitably) with far less than 10 snakes.
* Concerns about Storage
Mary and Ken are storing their snakes in a drawer system, which is definitely NOT seen as an acceptable storage method by everyone – criticisms are as valid as the arguments FOR it. Additionally, their snakes specifically are stored in drawers that are simply too small – the drawer’s length and width need to be AT LEAST as long as the snake’s total length. That is NOT the case for all their snakes, and additionally there is vlog footage of humidity dripping off the drawer walls, suggesting humidity regulation is not being done properly. Their snakes have also been covered in their own feaces, with Mary suggesting snakes find this enjoyable; it is actually very poor hygiene and a sign that they do not have enough room.
* Morph choices
Some of the morphs Mary has chosen have significant genetic health issues that would be passed on if she breeds them. ALL Spider morphs have what is called “the wobble” (for more information see below in the inventory) – many Champagne morphs also have this issue. Breeding between Champagne and Spider genes has been known to cause lethal health issues.
* Mary’s “Breeder Friends”
Ken addressed that Mary knows what she is doing regarding snake care and breeding because she has “breeder friends”. One of her highest profile “breeder friends” is Brian Barczyk who has been widely criticized within the reptile community himself for his breeding practises and the animals he keeps (there is additional information about him below). Brian is also a fervent supporter of the rack/drawer system, and has also specifically been criticized for HIS rack systems.
b – Inventory
Name Sex Species & Morph Acquisition
Benjamin M Ball Python – Pastel Ivory June 2015
Meryl F Ball Python – VPI Axanthic March 2016
Greta F Woma Python September 2016
Reginald M Ball Python – Cinnamon Banana April 2017
Pancake F Ball Python – Highway April 2017
Bonnie F Ball Python – Pastel Ivory April 2017
Waffles F Ball Python – Champagne Pinstripe July 2017
Poptart F Ball Python – Piebald July 2017
Helen? F Ball Python – Banana Leopard Spider July 2017
William M Ball Python – Killer Bee Het Pied July 2017
* Please note the last few snakes were supposedly named by Patreon but some names were changed or not announced, so at this stage it is hard to determine every name with certainty. Also please note above list was made before Pancake passed away in December 2017.
There has been a bit of discussion regarding Ken and Mary purchasing multiple snakes right before and after Layla’s birth while still expressing concerns about finances to encourage Patreon donations. Unfortunately it is difficult to determine how much these snakes cost with a firm degree of certainty. These python species can range in price between $200 and $10,000 depending on:
* Sex
* Age
* Favourable gene counts
* Popularity and rareness of morphs
* Breeder reputation and chosen pricing
Thanks to LurkieLou, you can read more about Spider morph issues below:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... or_welfare
http://wheremyscalesslither.tumblr.com/ ... the-wobble
c – Racks/Drawers
Opinions about snake racks/drawer systems vary widely inside the reptile community. There is no definitive evidence at this stage firmly for or against this method of keeping snakes.
PROS
+ Ball Pythons are a defensive species and are most comfortable hiding
+ It is easier to regulate temperature and humidity in a drawer, as opposed to an aquarium
+ Drawers are easy to move around and keep clean/sterile for the owners
+ Ball Pythons have no inherent need to burrow – climbing and swimming are not requirements
+ All snakes technically require is heat, security and food
CONS
- Tubs/drawers need to be AT LEAST the length of the snake in length plus width; with often curled up species like Ball Pythons it is difficult to monitor if they outgrow their drawers.
- When stacked away in racks, it is VERY easy to miss alarming behaviour/signs that indicate your snake may not be healthy; certain physical, visible behaviours indicate a need for medical attention.
- There are NO scientific studies regarding long term of multi-generational effects of any snakes, including Ball Pythons, barely using their muscles and practically never stretching out.
- “Preferred state” is not the same as “required permanent state” – ball pythons may prefer hiding, in the wild they still travel considerable distances to mate, eat and hide again. Them enjoying hiding does not mean that hiding and barely moving their entire lives is what is best for them.
- There are licensed and experienced breeders who say NON-drawer snakes are simply more well adjusted and friendly than snakes who spend their lives in racks.
d – Breeder Connections
Mary has appeared in videos with breeder and YouTuber Brian Barczyk. Brian has received his own share of criticism from inside the reptile community that is worth considering.
* Brian keeps both lizards and snakes in drawers that some have argued are far too small.
* Brian also keeps his very large snakes (including a reticulated python) in drawers – these are python species who are known to travel and climb extensively in the wild.
* Brian has allowed his large pythons to breed, even though he has said himself that he should not have done so because homing such large pythons responsibly is near impossible.
* Brian has an alligator himself, which he keeps in a small kiddie pool, and extensively showcases the alligator as a fun pet on his channel even though he says they should not be pets.
* Brian has been criticized after the deaths of some of his animals, with other experts implying he was at fault in the situation, and he has written that feedback off as “hate”.
* He has an incredibly high amount of reptiles, breeds a LOT, and subsequently he has been accused of slacking on checking on the health and living conditions of his animals.
For a critical perspective on Brian’s ethtics, you can go here:
https://fucknobadbreeders.tumblr.com/po ... -a-problem
I myself have an additional objection to Brian as a breeder and “source of advice” – in his videos you can see he handles his snakes quite roughly, and occasionally for fun will even “see how far he can go until it bites”. Though he may think it is harmless to show people that snake bites are no big deal, I simply see no reason to purposely stress out your reptiles.
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Re: FAQ - Pets Edition
R.I.P. Pancake
Sadly in early December 2017, Highway Ball Python "Pancake" passed away as a result of neglect.
Let me be very clear, that is not speculation, that was Ken's own explanation for Pancake's death.
VLOG REFERENCE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5nog9cKwWA
[If this video at any point is removed, please note it has been saved for re-upload for educational purposes.]
In Ken's words:
"I have unfortunate news. That ehm... Pancake, the highway snake, has passed away. And it's all my fault. Pancake was the one that used to [stay out in the] shop with me... and then we got them all new box hides and put 'em all in there, but ehm... five days ago I was trying to feed her, she didn't eat and then I thought that was just normal. Normal Ball Python behaviour, but then me and Mary just went out there to check 'em all and ehm... found her belly up and dead. It really sucks because she was such a nice snake, too. [Yeah it wouldn't suck if it was Meryl or Greta, right?] And ehm... she was kinda my snake, you know? And it's my fault. I did not take care of 'em like I was supposed to. And like, you know, I cleaned 'em all out not long ago. But then... there's a lot of factors that go into it. The thing that killed her was the humidity... inside of her enclosure. It was just real wet.... and she died."
Please do not mistake Ken's words for modesty. This is not him feeling overly responsible for something he could not help. Death through high humidity is an extremely slow, painful and sickly death for a snake. She has to have been sick for an extended period of time, and her enclosure has to have had too much humidity for an extended period of time. This is a prolongued time of neglect on several levels.
Any responsible snake owner checks the humidity in the enclosures, ESPECIALLY right after a change or move of enclosures, which was the case here. Ken flat out neglected the snakes, and Pancake happened to be the one who was the weakest.
Note that on this forum we have been pointing out for months that the smaller makeshift drawers they were using were far too humid, visibly so. As you can see below, these drawers are so humid that there was water dripping off the sides. They have been that way from the start. It has been pointed out to them:
Even if you like and respect Mary and Ken otherwise - which we can kindly disagree on - please don't excuse animal neglect and abuse. We understand they are exposed to a lot of unwanted advice on the internet, but there have been many occasions where they were advised of things that could have prevented Pancake's death.
Ultimately Ken admitted he did not check any of the snakes for 5 days straight, and Pancake's enclosure was insufficiently regulated for her wellbeing. If you stand for the things that they have been claiming to stand for - which is loving animals and caring about snakes - think twice before you explain this away as an "accident".
Sadly in early December 2017, Highway Ball Python "Pancake" passed away as a result of neglect.
Let me be very clear, that is not speculation, that was Ken's own explanation for Pancake's death.
VLOG REFERENCE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5nog9cKwWA
[If this video at any point is removed, please note it has been saved for re-upload for educational purposes.]
In Ken's words:
"I have unfortunate news. That ehm... Pancake, the highway snake, has passed away. And it's all my fault. Pancake was the one that used to [stay out in the] shop with me... and then we got them all new box hides and put 'em all in there, but ehm... five days ago I was trying to feed her, she didn't eat and then I thought that was just normal. Normal Ball Python behaviour, but then me and Mary just went out there to check 'em all and ehm... found her belly up and dead. It really sucks because she was such a nice snake, too. [Yeah it wouldn't suck if it was Meryl or Greta, right?] And ehm... she was kinda my snake, you know? And it's my fault. I did not take care of 'em like I was supposed to. And like, you know, I cleaned 'em all out not long ago. But then... there's a lot of factors that go into it. The thing that killed her was the humidity... inside of her enclosure. It was just real wet.... and she died."
Please do not mistake Ken's words for modesty. This is not him feeling overly responsible for something he could not help. Death through high humidity is an extremely slow, painful and sickly death for a snake. She has to have been sick for an extended period of time, and her enclosure has to have had too much humidity for an extended period of time. This is a prolongued time of neglect on several levels.
Any responsible snake owner checks the humidity in the enclosures, ESPECIALLY right after a change or move of enclosures, which was the case here. Ken flat out neglected the snakes, and Pancake happened to be the one who was the weakest.
Note that on this forum we have been pointing out for months that the smaller makeshift drawers they were using were far too humid, visibly so. As you can see below, these drawers are so humid that there was water dripping off the sides. They have been that way from the start. It has been pointed out to them:
Even if you like and respect Mary and Ken otherwise - which we can kindly disagree on - please don't excuse animal neglect and abuse. We understand they are exposed to a lot of unwanted advice on the internet, but there have been many occasions where they were advised of things that could have prevented Pancake's death.
Ultimately Ken admitted he did not check any of the snakes for 5 days straight, and Pancake's enclosure was insufficiently regulated for her wellbeing. If you stand for the things that they have been claiming to stand for - which is loving animals and caring about snakes - think twice before you explain this away as an "accident".
Shredder. Master Splinter. Jackie. Boss. Pancake.
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Re: FAQ - Pets Edition
Updated Information about the Snakes
Ken and Mary have been avoiding specifics in regards to the snakes - under the presumption that it isn't anyone's business, which would apply if they had not previously overshared about them and then let one die due to neglect... people are going to wonder and worry, whether it's their business or not. You would hope that is a good thing to anyone who loves animals.
Mentions and Updates
* 7 February 2018 In their "At The Vet" vlog, Mary mentions Greta seemed sick and they took her to the vet. The vet prescribed her antibiotics as she was indeed sick. Mary stated that this had made her doubt herself, and she was going to take all snakes to the vet.
* 14 February 2018 In the Valentine's Day vlog they showed having moved all the snakes back inside the house (out of the storm shelter) in the drawers.
* 17 February 2018 Ken mentions in a vlog that the snakes were checked by the vet and Bonnie was now also on meds, but "everyone else is okay" and Mary confirms that this made her feel good about herself.
* 15 March 2018 Ken announced on Twitter that he would skip a stream so he and Mary could move all the snakes out of the drawer system and into terrariums. I presume this is when they figured out the rack system was not helping, and more snakes were sick.
* 29 May 2018 Between other subjects in the vlog, it is quickly mentioned "there are still some snakes we're trying to make better". No specifics.
* 17 June 2018 The latest mention of the snakes' health issues - Ken says "We're trying to make our snakes better". This sounds like a blanket statement for all snakes, but the only snake we definitely see in relation to the antibiotics is William.
At some point, somewhere between April 2018 and July 2018, they update their Patreon family description stating they have 6 snakes. Mind you, before Pancake died there were 10 snakes. This means after Pancake, 3 more snakes have died. Although they are slowly showing more and more snakes in the vlogs (since fans are calling for updates on the snakes) they are not specific on which 6 snakes are left. Please check below for a visual guide of all 10 snakes and which ones are confirmed still alive, and which ones we do not know about.
Visual Guide | Which snakes are still alive?
5 of the 6 snakes still alive are confirmed: Benjamin (seen), Greta (seen), William (seen), Poptart (mentioned) and Bonnie (mentioned).
This leaves 4 snakes unconfirmed out of which 3 would have passed away: Meryl, Waffles, Reggie or Helen.
Ken and Mary have been avoiding specifics in regards to the snakes - under the presumption that it isn't anyone's business, which would apply if they had not previously overshared about them and then let one die due to neglect... people are going to wonder and worry, whether it's their business or not. You would hope that is a good thing to anyone who loves animals.
Mentions and Updates
* 7 February 2018 In their "At The Vet" vlog, Mary mentions Greta seemed sick and they took her to the vet. The vet prescribed her antibiotics as she was indeed sick. Mary stated that this had made her doubt herself, and she was going to take all snakes to the vet.
* 14 February 2018 In the Valentine's Day vlog they showed having moved all the snakes back inside the house (out of the storm shelter) in the drawers.
* 17 February 2018 Ken mentions in a vlog that the snakes were checked by the vet and Bonnie was now also on meds, but "everyone else is okay" and Mary confirms that this made her feel good about herself.
* 15 March 2018 Ken announced on Twitter that he would skip a stream so he and Mary could move all the snakes out of the drawer system and into terrariums. I presume this is when they figured out the rack system was not helping, and more snakes were sick.
* 29 May 2018 Between other subjects in the vlog, it is quickly mentioned "there are still some snakes we're trying to make better". No specifics.
* 17 June 2018 The latest mention of the snakes' health issues - Ken says "We're trying to make our snakes better". This sounds like a blanket statement for all snakes, but the only snake we definitely see in relation to the antibiotics is William.
At some point, somewhere between April 2018 and July 2018, they update their Patreon family description stating they have 6 snakes. Mind you, before Pancake died there were 10 snakes. This means after Pancake, 3 more snakes have died. Although they are slowly showing more and more snakes in the vlogs (since fans are calling for updates on the snakes) they are not specific on which 6 snakes are left. Please check below for a visual guide of all 10 snakes and which ones are confirmed still alive, and which ones we do not know about.
Visual Guide | Which snakes are still alive?
5 of the 6 snakes still alive are confirmed: Benjamin (seen), Greta (seen), William (seen), Poptart (mentioned) and Bonnie (mentioned).
This leaves 4 snakes unconfirmed out of which 3 would have passed away: Meryl, Waffles, Reggie or Helen.
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Re: FAQ - Pets Edition
Mary streamed in November 2018 and has deleted the stream from her Twitch channel afterwards, so only the people who tuned in live know what was said, however most of the snakes having passed away came up.
Additional confirmed deaths are Ben and Meryl. Only Greta is confirmed alive. The impression was given only 2 snakes were left.
Additional confirmed deaths are Ben and Meryl. Only Greta is confirmed alive. The impression was given only 2 snakes were left.
Shredder. Master Splinter. Jackie. Boss. Pancake.
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Re: FAQ - Pets Edition
Unfortunately Mary confirmed on Patreon that 9 out of 10 snakes have passed away from "an infectious disease" and only Greta is still alive.
What happened to the snakes?
Mary mentions in this vlog (https://youtu.be/Cc4rHJ_EF_k?t=250) last year that Greta was diagnoised with Respiratory Infection (RI) - this is the most common/best known 'infectious disease' (it's an actual infection) diagnosed in pet snakes. RI is very dangerous for snakes and though there are no official statistics, is known among snake owners to often lead to death, with treatment only rarely being effective. This would explain why only 1 of the snakes ended up surviving - this would not be related to the fact that Greta is a Woma python, Womas are just as susceptible to RI and in fact she was the first after Pancake's passing to show signs of RI.
https://www.petmd.com/reptile/species/ball-python
http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Snakes/ ... ealth-101/
Above two sources explain a little more about RI. Unfortunately as both sources state, RI is almost always the result of poor care, poor hygiene, poor housing or stress.
RI can be prevented by:
- Carefully maintaining the correct humidity and temperature in the snake's enclosure.
- Maintaining good hygiene in your snake's enclosure.
- Frequently and thoroughly checking your snake and their enclosure for signs of issues.
- Limiting stress for your snake as much as possible.
What could have caused an RI outbreak?
Mary has mentioned "mouldy bedding" in a comment on Instagram in the past, but unless a key part of information is not being shared, it's just extremely unlikely that that is the sole or main cause of the situation.
- Mouldy bedding does not cause instant RI; frequent checks and good tank conditions would prevent it from having any effect at all.
- We already know that the first snake (Pancake) died due to negligence (on Ken's part) and this is most likely where the outbreak started.
- Mary mentioned the mouldy bedding in the second half of the year - the RI outbreak started at the start of the year.
The most likely cause would have been a combination of the following circumstances...
1. The drawer system the snakes were being kept in made it near impossible to ensure optimal temperature and humidity, which makes the snakes vulnerable and can cause stress.
2. Ken moved the drawer systems into the storm shelter because "the snakes were stinking up the house"; snakes shouldn't smell if their enclosures are kept clean. This is a sign of poor hygiene.
3. The storm shelter may have had poor ventilation and/or affected the temperature/humidity stability in the drawers.
4. Ken then did not check on the snakes for at least 5 days; this makes way for poor hygiene and bad temp/humidity to cause issues.
5. Once the first snake is affected the others are in danger as well, especially when living in a drawer system where their enclosures are close together and physically connected to each other.
6. Due to them having a very large number of snakes, it becomes difficult to very thoroughly check the wellbeing and conditions of each snake closely enough to know when something is or isn't wrong.
Our Issue
GG has stated many times before that we were concerned about drawer systems in general, but especially their makeshift drawer system.
Another issue we've had that played into this was the fact that Mary insisted that "having 2 snakes or 20 snakes is the same amount of work", which above events kind of disprove... cleaning 10 tanks was a lot more work than cleaning 2. Checking 10 snakes carefully is a lot more work than checking on 2. Paying vet bills for 10 snakes is a lot more expensive than for 2. The mentality she was promoting (which is - "snakes are super easy, I'm a pro at this, stop questioning my hoarding") is harmful. There is a difference between having different amounts of snakes, and buying them in large lots at a time and then mocking people who are concerned is irresponsible.
Additionally Mary decided to tie her audience into her snake ownership - she took it upon herself to educate people on snakes and snake care, when she did not need to - and even let Patrons name the snakes. If you're going to take the stage to claim yourself an expert (and dismiss people expressing concern for the wellbeing of your animals) then you also need to have the backbone to stay on stage when that same audience needs to learn from your poor decision making.
Losing pets is painful, taking responsibility for that even moreso, but part of the problem is that some of the factors that caused this really sad situation were pointed out early on and this could have been prevented - other people can learn from that, especially people who believed her when she said to get lots of snakes because it's "super easy", making a DIY drawer system is risk-free and when your snakes smell you just move them out of the house.
The GuruGossip SMF community wants to make very clear that we do not think Mary caused this situation on purpose, and we take no joy in how this story has ended. We would have much preferred to have been proven wrong by the snakes living long, happy, healthy lives. We are sure Mary, in her own way and within her own means, did everything she could to try and save them once she realized they were dangerously sick. We are in no way implying Mary did this on purpose, or did not care about her snakes at all. Our issue is that she (as per usual) too quickly considered herself an expert, made bad choices and dished out some seriously bad advice, dismissed and ignored very reasonable concerns expressed (that could have prevented this) and now will not be as publicly accountable as she was publicly irresponsible.
Rest in peace Benjamin, Meryl, Bonnie, Waffles, Poptart, Reginald, Nanners/Helen, William and Pancake.
What happened to the snakes?
Mary mentions in this vlog (https://youtu.be/Cc4rHJ_EF_k?t=250) last year that Greta was diagnoised with Respiratory Infection (RI) - this is the most common/best known 'infectious disease' (it's an actual infection) diagnosed in pet snakes. RI is very dangerous for snakes and though there are no official statistics, is known among snake owners to often lead to death, with treatment only rarely being effective. This would explain why only 1 of the snakes ended up surviving - this would not be related to the fact that Greta is a Woma python, Womas are just as susceptible to RI and in fact she was the first after Pancake's passing to show signs of RI.
https://www.petmd.com/reptile/species/ball-python
http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Snakes/ ... ealth-101/
Above two sources explain a little more about RI. Unfortunately as both sources state, RI is almost always the result of poor care, poor hygiene, poor housing or stress.
RI can be prevented by:
- Carefully maintaining the correct humidity and temperature in the snake's enclosure.
- Maintaining good hygiene in your snake's enclosure.
- Frequently and thoroughly checking your snake and their enclosure for signs of issues.
- Limiting stress for your snake as much as possible.
What could have caused an RI outbreak?
Mary has mentioned "mouldy bedding" in a comment on Instagram in the past, but unless a key part of information is not being shared, it's just extremely unlikely that that is the sole or main cause of the situation.
- Mouldy bedding does not cause instant RI; frequent checks and good tank conditions would prevent it from having any effect at all.
- We already know that the first snake (Pancake) died due to negligence (on Ken's part) and this is most likely where the outbreak started.
- Mary mentioned the mouldy bedding in the second half of the year - the RI outbreak started at the start of the year.
The most likely cause would have been a combination of the following circumstances...
1. The drawer system the snakes were being kept in made it near impossible to ensure optimal temperature and humidity, which makes the snakes vulnerable and can cause stress.
2. Ken moved the drawer systems into the storm shelter because "the snakes were stinking up the house"; snakes shouldn't smell if their enclosures are kept clean. This is a sign of poor hygiene.
3. The storm shelter may have had poor ventilation and/or affected the temperature/humidity stability in the drawers.
4. Ken then did not check on the snakes for at least 5 days; this makes way for poor hygiene and bad temp/humidity to cause issues.
5. Once the first snake is affected the others are in danger as well, especially when living in a drawer system where their enclosures are close together and physically connected to each other.
6. Due to them having a very large number of snakes, it becomes difficult to very thoroughly check the wellbeing and conditions of each snake closely enough to know when something is or isn't wrong.
Our Issue
GG has stated many times before that we were concerned about drawer systems in general, but especially their makeshift drawer system.
Another issue we've had that played into this was the fact that Mary insisted that "having 2 snakes or 20 snakes is the same amount of work", which above events kind of disprove... cleaning 10 tanks was a lot more work than cleaning 2. Checking 10 snakes carefully is a lot more work than checking on 2. Paying vet bills for 10 snakes is a lot more expensive than for 2. The mentality she was promoting (which is - "snakes are super easy, I'm a pro at this, stop questioning my hoarding") is harmful. There is a difference between having different amounts of snakes, and buying them in large lots at a time and then mocking people who are concerned is irresponsible.
Additionally Mary decided to tie her audience into her snake ownership - she took it upon herself to educate people on snakes and snake care, when she did not need to - and even let Patrons name the snakes. If you're going to take the stage to claim yourself an expert (and dismiss people expressing concern for the wellbeing of your animals) then you also need to have the backbone to stay on stage when that same audience needs to learn from your poor decision making.
Losing pets is painful, taking responsibility for that even moreso, but part of the problem is that some of the factors that caused this really sad situation were pointed out early on and this could have been prevented - other people can learn from that, especially people who believed her when she said to get lots of snakes because it's "super easy", making a DIY drawer system is risk-free and when your snakes smell you just move them out of the house.
The GuruGossip SMF community wants to make very clear that we do not think Mary caused this situation on purpose, and we take no joy in how this story has ended. We would have much preferred to have been proven wrong by the snakes living long, happy, healthy lives. We are sure Mary, in her own way and within her own means, did everything she could to try and save them once she realized they were dangerously sick. We are in no way implying Mary did this on purpose, or did not care about her snakes at all. Our issue is that she (as per usual) too quickly considered herself an expert, made bad choices and dished out some seriously bad advice, dismissed and ignored very reasonable concerns expressed (that could have prevented this) and now will not be as publicly accountable as she was publicly irresponsible.
Rest in peace Benjamin, Meryl, Bonnie, Waffles, Poptart, Reginald, Nanners/Helen, William and Pancake.
Shredder. Master Splinter. Jackie. Boss. Pancake.