Dan & Phil Part 61:Danneedsreassurance & AmazingPigeonfest

[Guest]

You right about the fact that they are a lot easier on Phil than they are Dan. I always found it interesting that they have this whole 'protect Phil' from any negativity but will happily throw Dan under the bus if something happens even though Dan seems to be the one out of them that handles negativity worse. Phil never really shows he cares about people being negative towards him, he just brushes it off as 'oh well I'm not your cup of tea, that's fine' but negativity towards Dan and he has like a melt down (maybe not so much anymore but he used to handle it badly). So yeah, I always found that weird and interesting that they protect and get defensive over 'baby Phil' even though Phil never seems to care what people say or think about him but can be pretty harsh on Dan when Dan has shown to have negative effects of it before x

Sometimes (Sandra email) Dan completely brings it on himself by making an issue out of nothing, but I always found the reaction to Dan’s denials of phan in 2012 pretty interesting (I don’t even think he handled it all that poorly considering his age and the fact that a bunch of his issues weren’t even to do with phan but things like people stalking his family and friends but that’s another topic). I always hear people say how mean he was being to Phil and how out of line and poor Phil, but isn’t it painfully obvious that Phil would have known what Dan wasdoing denying Phan, since it involves him and effects him and obviously agreed with it to go along with it? I have a feeling if it came out that phan wasn’t real or was real but they broke up, if Dan was in another relationship, people would be mad at him for “doing that to Phil” and if Phil was in another relationship people would say it was Dan’s fault because he must have done something to make Phil move on. At this point, I don’t even get annoyed on Dan’s behalf although I do end up defending him if people take it too far(some people after his Living my truth video), but come on, at 31 or however old Phil is, people really think he doesn’t even have enough agency in his own life and intelligence to be able to decide something as simple as when he wants to say fuck in a video or not. End rant.

[illegal_mind]

dan's never gonna hear the end of it if he were to ever get a gf.
the dangirls would drag her to the mud and the phannies would turn on him for queerbaiting.
the best solution if they are a couple and don't want to reveal it would be to get into a trouple with a guy. they both come out, reveal they broke up a long time ago and reveal they're still friends, and so people don't think they're pulling a mark and ethan and still dating off camera, they get a guy to join in, but to the public, that dude is dan's boyfriend, we have no idea they they're sharing.
it'd have to be dan's boyfriend because otherwise we'd get people going on about how bad it must be for dan's mental health to see his best friend/ex boyfriend with another guy and having it being rubbed on his face.
it'd also be great at least for phil's channel, because he could do videos like "who knows dan better?" and "boyfriend vs best friend"
/endjoke

but seriously, if either of them ever started dating a girl, the phandom would destroy them. a guy they'd let it slide. the phannies would be sad about phan not being real, but they'd project phan onto the relationship and eventually start fetishizing dan with his bf and phil with his bf the same way they do phan. and dangirls would probably just be hella homophobic as usual and then move on and start going after adrian

[Disney_Wolf]

Oh no! I completely agree, Dan definitely does bring it on himself at times. I'm just saying I love how if phil did something or if someone said something about Phil they'd protect him like crazy but if Dan did something they wouldn't protect him or if someone said something mean about Danz they'd most likely join in and say worse things about him because 'its Dan' and 'phil is a baby that needs protected and can't handle negativity' when it's been shown to be the other way about

It seems everyone has the same impression of either got a girlfriend then those poor girls better run for their life. Boyfriend would be a somewhat safer option (minus the homophobic Dan/philgirls) but a girlfriend would have all sides of the phandom in chaos x

[Guest]

Oh no! I completely agree, Dan definitely does bring it on himself at times. I'm just saying I love how if phil did something or if someone said something about Phil they'd protect him like crazy but if Dan did something they wouldn't protect him or if someone said something mean about Danz they'd most likely join in and say worse things about him because 'its Dan' and 'phil is a baby that needs protected and can't handle negativity' when it's been shown to be the other way about

It seems everyone has the same impression of either got a girlfriend then those poor girls better run for their life. Boyfriend would be a somewhat safer option (minus the homophobic Dan/philgirls) but a girlfriend would have all sides of the phandom in chaos x

I agree with you on this post and your last on people being harder on Dan than Phil. I guess I just needed to rant haha.

I love how running through this one little scenario reminded me what a strange mix of fetishization, homophobia, and mysoginy makes up a large part of the phandom. We can definitely all agree that the “we love and support you and just want you to feel comfortable enough to be open with us” would go out the window. And the poor girls (I agree that if it were guys, at least the fetishizing gay relationships part of the phandom would let it slide).

I’m honestly suprised neither of them have exes that were stalked in the past. Not really Dan as much because high school but Phil was already through college and living on his own. Maybe I just missed this if it happened though being a casual viewer. I guess one of the reasons that peaks my curiousity, and it’s not just that or even necessarily anything to do with relationships, is that I just don’t understand how they manage to never have scandals or things come out of be leaked about them. It just seems so weird to me although maybe it has to do with their fans being very young. I’m just a cynic who has a hard time believing when people are too lucky haha!

[illegal_mind]

dan's highschool gf erin was stalked. people found her social media, what her job is, all of it. not sure if it was posted here in earlier threads, but it was definitely shared amongst the phandom, since i remember seeing pics of her.
they basically just wanted to know what type of girl dan was into, since they all got the impression he was into non white girls, such as east asians. people assumed one of his friends who is of asian descent was erin(the one in the pic in a bikini and dan's in bathing shorts, and i think they got lei's around their necks), for a long time, until they found out erin is actually white and not that different from the average white girl that you'd see guys like the gleamers date

[urmel]

I’m honestly suprised neither of them have exes that were stalked in the past.

Depends on how you define stalked I suppose. When Facebook first introduced graph search (maybe 4 years ago?), people were able to sift through every photo they were tagged in (in Dan's case including his ex), using much broader search phrases than before. That stuff was always there, but not easily searchable prior to the new search functions.
Idk if people were actively bothered by fans, but people were definitely going through their profiles. And I can't lie, myself included. When this started getting out they properly started to lock down their Facebooks to close the majority of the graph search loopholes.



finally figured out how to change this (sent from hell)

[illegal_mind]

yeah, it's not like people didn't try to stalk past relationships. they squeezed as much as they could from a dried up orange.
i think the only thing it led to on phil's end was finding out his uni roommate had died in a freakish way(can't remember if it was suicide or not).
they also assumed phil was dating some american actress that was trying to be a youtuber whilst posing naked for british adult magazines. she was on one of the american pie movies apparently and people found vlogs of her with phil. but nothing ever came from it because there wasn't really anything to connect them romantically, although people assume it might've been a hook up type thing

[Guest]

I guess the phandom deserves some credit. Usually in fandoms I hear about people’s friends, significant others, exes etc being contacted or having their privacy and lives invaded to a greater extent than just finding pictures. Looks like Adrian is the only one who got screwed there.

I’ve seen some examples of next level stalking on the other site but only when it comes to proving phan.

Still, they seem to be pretty lucky with people not talking about them/things not coming out about them. How they manage to keep everything so private is really impressive but again kind of shocking to me just given the way people are and the way the world works. But also like I said before, I could see the fact that their audience is so young having something to do with that too. I don’t know.

[Disney_Wolf]

yeah, it's not like people didn't try to stalk past relationships. they squeezed as much as they could from a dried up orange.
i think the only thing it led to on phil's end was finding out his uni roommate had died in a freakish way(can't remember if it was suicide or not).
they also assumed phil was dating some american actress that was trying to be a youtuber whilst posing naked for british adult magazines. she was on one of the american pie movies apparently and people found vlogs of her with phil. but nothing ever came from it because there wasn't really anything to connect them romantically, although people assume it might've been a hook up type thing

About Phil's uni friend I'm sure it was something like he went missing for weeks and then found in a river (which btw if we are getting real there have been a few students over the years that went to the same uni found in the same river which is disturbing)

As for the American nude model girl, yeah, they used to film videos together and leave flirty comments under each others videos (which doesn't prove much, Phil flirted with everyone really) but as far as Phil relationships that's all I can tell the phandom have gotten, some people think he dated Charlie but for obvious reasons I hope NOT so I'm going to live in the 'charlie and Phil didn't date because Charlie was a minor and Phil an adult'
Other than that Phil's history is pretty quiet from the phandom side x

[illegal_mind]

I guess the phandom deserves some credit. Usually in fandoms I hear about people’s friends, significant others, exes etc being contacted or having their privacy and lives invaded to a greater extent than just finding pictures. Looks like Adrian is the only one who got screwed there.

I’ve seen some examples of next level stalking on the other site but only when it comes to proving phan.

Still, they seem to be pretty lucky with people not talking about them/things not coming out about them. How they manage to keep everything so private is really impressive but again kind of shocking to me just given the way people are and the way the world works. But also like I said before, I could see the fact that their audience is so young having something to do with that too. I don’t know.

adrian definitely got the short end of the stick.
phil's fb friends got chased on fb. people were going through their pics to find stuff that had phil in it. but because things were being posted on phil's tumblr tag, he was made aware. suddenly his friends' profile were inaccessible and phil made a post telling people to stop harassing his friend. and that was the end of it. people see phil as that parent that's always nice, so when he gets mad you better shut up and listen. whilst with dan, he's the parent that's always yelling, so when he literally told people to fuck off for harassing his 15yo brother, nobody cared.

tbh i wouldn't be that surprised if the reason why there's nothing about them ever is not because it doesn't happen but because they're good at keeping it under wraps. i mean, there's plenty of high profile people that force others to sign nda's, especially if they're closeted. a closeted celeb forcing a hook up or a non-celeb to sign a nda to ensure no one ever hears about it isn't unheard of. high profile people who hire escorts also often make them sign an nda.
so it's quite possible the reason nothing ever comes out about them is because they've been smart enough to put a safety net down

[Dex_Cotton]

Dan bouncing stuff off of his ass and making the triangle symbol by lying on his back and holding his legs in the air was pretty sexual in the final PINOF.

[pugsypugs]

I've got my theory as for why so many people ship phan, aside from the obvious "they've lived together for years they're real close and blahblahblah"

There's this tumblr questionnaire about Dan and Phil's fans that goes around every year. Basic questions like male/female, when did you find them, who did you find first etc.

It is also shown that a HUGE sum of their fans are LGBT, and found them around 2013-15.

Well, I found DnP around 2014, around the time where who I like and what I am generally was really confusing. Popular media didn't really have a lot of LGBT characters and representation (major strides w that btw) and it was kind of comforting to think of them as being together, to show myself that it's not that big of a deal to be LGBT, that I can still have a normal life even if I'm gay/bi.

Assuming that LGBT folks that started watching them around 2009 wanted to feel much more represented felt the same thing, but on a bigger level because the representation back then was even worse.

What do you guys think?

[illegal_mind]

i could see that being a reasoning now, but when i joined in, the phandom was pretty much all girls. there were very few guys that watched them. and because we were so few, we all knew each other and interacted with each other on social media. the male viewers were all either gay or bi. so i can see that could've been a thing to draw us in. most of the female fans were straight. and even back then phan was already shipped, there was already a big rift between shippers and non shippers. there were already dangirls, etc.
for me and the other guys, it might've been that. we all thought dan and phil were gay when we first found them, so we saw someone to connect with, and we stuck around. but i can't really see that for the girls. the straight ones that shipped it were simply fetishizing homosexuality, whilst knowing nothing about gay relationships, making all assumptions based off straight relationships, gay porn and fanfics. for the non straight girls, i guess i just don't see it really as looking for representation. at least for me, and i know this is the case for a lot of gay guys, we see ourselves represented in other male non straight youtubers. i don't watch lesbian youtubers. i don't relate to them and i don't see myself represented by them. yes, they're a part of the community just as much as me, but i'm not a lesbian woman, so i don't see myself represented by one.

also, that questionnaire is very secluded in terms of audience. it doesn't really encompass the majority of their audience nor the general audience that watches them regularly. it's pretty much just the tumblr audience, which is mostly comprised of lgbt people, so obviously the results will be skewed. if you were to take in the entirety of the phandom, by including twitter, ig, facebook, you'd see that their audience is mostly comprised of straight girls

[okay-sis]

When I started watching them, I was 16 and struggling to find my place I guess. I think I only related to them because of my anxiety and depression. From what I saw on the comments and the countless tumblr blogs, there was mostly female fans who obsessively shipped Phan.

[princezuko]

To give my two cents on the 'why' is that it might be similar to how fans of K-pop groups act. They idolize and fetishize the hell out of these people, and even moreso with each other. The "ships" are easily found on all SNS sites and fanfiction is no doubt in heavy supply. Companies know about this and try to feed into it to keep fans interested (despite the effect it has on their idols). They're very aware of how fans function - through anecdotal evidence and data, it's easy to pinpoint what needs to be done to not only keep fans hooked, but get others curious. So they'll force skin-ship, little moments, personas, manufacture stories, and the idols in question may play it up and become accustomed to doing things like that because it generates interest in them. Well, that and a good majority of fans only pay attention to them because of the pairings. You'd think it would be mostly harmless, but stalker fans (sasaengs), forceful fans on social media and fanmeets, and being essentially forced to push something that isn't there just to have fans follow your group is pretty sh*tty. A lot of these fans are not part of the LGBT+ community, but for one reason or another, live off fetishizing their idols in this way.

Also, "Phan" never seemed like a thing to me tbh but I think part of it is because it might be like a community for fans? A lot of them are young, going through things, and may not have many friends or people with similar interests, and so joining and building a community for the common interest just happens naturally. When I started watching their content that featured them together, I was already a young adult and not really the target demographic and could see through some of the things they'd do, but had I been younger, I probably would've found it charming.

[xoxo_24689]

The 'is Phan real?' question comes up whenever there's a lull in their content. I'm not complaining, because I find it interesting to hear other (sane, non-phangirly) people's perspectives, but it does say something about their content that this is what we always circle back to.

Personally, I find it hard not to see them as a couple. I've definitely had sceptical moments (mostly bc of the shitload of fake 'proof' and the level of reaching some Phannies go to) and do go back and forwards sometimes, but I just can't bring myself to ignore that:
- They've lived together for god knows how many years, and never seemed interested in living alone or with a partner/family. How typical is it for 30 year old men who are as financially stable as they are to still live with the same platonic roommate for this long?
- Neither of them have ever legitimately been caught on a date with anybody else, or making out with a rando at a club, etc. (to my knowledge anyway)
- Neither of them have ever mentioned any exes apart from pre-Youtube, and they don't ever talk about their dating lives either (i don't expect them to go into detail, but there's been no casual mention of seeing people, going on dates, having any kind of relationship or anything like that, in 10 years on YT? Granted, tho, maybe that's bc of the way the Phandom is)
- I just find it difficult to believe that either a) neither of them has dated or had any kind of relationship in the past 10 years, or b) every relationship has been so carefully guarded and everyone they've come into contact with romantically/sexually has signed an NDA and kept their mouths shut?

Either way, it must be so miserable and exhausting for them to have to keep everything so private all of the time. Keeping relationships (either with each other or with anyone else) a secret must take a lot of hard work, and I know I'd be fed up of it by now if I were them. If they're a couple, they can't go out and act coupley or someone might snap a pic and expose them. If they're not, they still have to keep everything a secret and it must put a strain on any actual relationships they have/had. I really don't know how or why they've kept this mystery up for so long. Yeah, it's good for the brand and for their bank accounts, but aren't they tired of it by now? Sure, there'd be an initial shitstorm if the truth came out, but surely they'd be happier once they don't have to face constant speculation and try so hard to hide their lives every day and can just go about their lives normally?

I find it fascinating how culture has developed. I remember Dan writing an old tumblr post about how he was part of the first generation of internet kids, who lacked the awareness we have now. I'm a couple years younger than Dan, and I remember people used to treat the internet like some kind of secret place, where nobody from real life except for your friends would find anything you posted. Obviously, we now know that anything you post can come back to haunt you and it's never really hidden or deleted. D&P were part of the first generation of vloggers putting their whole lives and personalities online, and they didn't necessarily understand or consider the long-term implications of that. They couldn't have predicted the hardcore obsessing, stalking and shipping that would follow them for years (though, they definitely haven't done much to help themselves escape that over the years). I'd love to hear them talk candidly and honestly about how their online personas and the extreme phandom culture has impacted the way they live their real lives. I'd be especially interested to hear Dan discuss his 2012 aggressive Phan denial phase, what his thought process was at the time, and how he went from that point to the level of Phan-baiting they've put out since. Maybe in the future, once their career is all dried up (even moreso than it already is), they'll open up about that kind of thing and we'll find out the truth behind the big 'Phan' mystery... but I doubt it. Anyway, I doubt any of this is groundbreaking thinking, but thanks for coming to my TedTalk

[NocteRegem]

I came to know them during the Valentine Day Video leaked. And I dont see how anyone can say that it was fake. It was 100% real, filled with details that obsessive fans were able to cross reference, Phil is not a good actor, and it just felt real. If it was a joke the end would be "lol. got you".

Anyway. Because the video is clearly real for me, I dont see how they would still be living together if they were not a couple. Can people leave relationships and be friends? Sure, but it is not that usual. That combined with the lack of information about other relationships etc is very strong evidence they are together.

Now the interesting part is "why dont they just come clean on everything?". I think they are scared of the level of obsession being worse. There would be people crashing their weeding ahahahhaha.

But lets be honest, they could exploit their relationship for views and make all the money. Can you imagine the views on "planing a weeding" series of vlogs?

[paper-roses]

I've been on the fence about whether or not they are/were a couple but seeing a screenshot of Dan's comment on the vday video is what convinced me they must have had something in the past at the very least, even if they're just friends now. A comment on a private video is basically a private message and the things Dan said are things I'd say to my own boyfriend.

Personally, I don't think they "owe" their viewers any kind of coming clean or coming out. Their personal life is their personal life, and if they want to keep it to themselves, I think they're allowed to do so. Especially if they really are just friends now. If they're still a couple....I guess eventually if they want to get anymore serious than they already are they'd have to do a reveal, although I still think that's for them to decide and not something they should do just to appease the shippers.

[Illogic_ally]

I've been on the fence about whether or not they are/were a couple but seeing a screenshot of Dan's comment on the vday video is what convinced me they must have had something in the past at the very least, even if they're just friends now. A comment on a private video is basically a private message and the things Dan said are things I'd say to my own boyfriend.

Personally, I don't think they "owe" their viewers any kind of coming clean or coming out. Their personal life is their personal life, and if they want to keep it to themselves, I think they're allowed to do so. Especially if they really are just friends now. If they're still a couple....I guess eventually if they want to get anymore serious than they already are they'd have to do a reveal, although I still think that's for them to decide and not something they should do just to appease the shippers.

Can someone give a rundown about what the v day video was? I was only a casual fan until recently so I missed all that haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paper-roses]

I've been on the fence about whether or not they are/were a couple but seeing a screenshot of Dan's comment on the vday video is what convinced me they must have had something in the past at the very least, even if they're just friends now. A comment on a private video is basically a private message and the things Dan said are things I'd say to my own boyfriend.

Personally, I don't think they "owe" their viewers any kind of coming clean or coming out. Their personal life is their personal life, and if they want to keep it to themselves, I think they're allowed to do so. Especially if they really are just friends now. If they're still a couple....I guess eventually if they want to get anymore serious than they already are they'd have to do a reveal, although I still think that's for them to decide and not something they should do just to appease the shippers.

Can someone give a rundown about what the v day video was? I was only a casual fan until recently so I missed all that haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I only just read up on this today myself, and I'm sure the subject has been talked to death on this site already, so bear with me.

Basically, on Feb 13, 2010 Phil posted a video directed at Dan on LessAmazingPhil, in which he talks about their relationship. He talks about the two of them going on dates, spending time together, kissing, and says "I love you" to Dan. The video was originally private, but became public due to a youtube glitch, so viewers saw it. Phil quickly took it down, contacted the fans and asked them not to spread it. It resurfaced in 2012 and went viral in the phandom. Dan's explanation when asked about it was that the video was meant to be an April Fool's joke intended to troll shippers, and that they would have made the video public on April Fool's Day. They ultimately decided not to do it because it would have been too "mean".

The comment I'm referring to is a comment Dan left on the video presumably when it was still private. He talks about how Phil has made him happier than anything else and that he wants to be with him forever. The April Fool's Day story has some pretty big holes in it, and Dan's comment together convinced me they must have been a couple at some point.