Sam Pepper - Part 3

[Cryptic]

Honestly idk whenever he raped anyone or not but the fact that he makes a video grabbing women's butt as a fun thing even if scripted is just so inappropriate. What's to say he wouldn't act inappropriate with women off camera? Like that girl claiming he was touching her inappropriately in the movie theatre. There's nothing whatsoever indicating that Sam wouldn't be dumb and inappropriate enough to do something like that. It's also weird that if he is so innocent that he hasn't said anything about it until now with the excuse "No one would have believed me anyway!" Like those are some serious allegations and he did not plead innocent at all until now? If I were accused of a crime I didn't commit for the whole world to see I would do my best to claim my innocence. And then there is this anonymous video of the girl accusing him of rape. She doesn't get anything out of that besides ruining Sam's reputation. Unless Sam has done something to her personally idk why a random girl would just make that up. :S

I'm not saying he is a rapist but I'm just pointing out things I find weird.

[ClipClap]

I don't think there is nothing - too many people that know/knew him have said something and turned their backs and alluded to things, but (and I know it's hard and I've read the stats and the trauma caused from prosecution) I really wish one or more of the girls would have gone to the police.

It worries me that the internet moves so quickly that he will gain new fans who don't know who he is.

[Cryptic]

One apology from him and all of sudden his videos are getting heaps of likes again. How fickle can humans be lol? The most alarming part is that he did not address the rape/sexual harassment allegations until now. I don't know whenever he is just stupid but that is really unusual behaviour of someone completely innocent. Why all this time? He claimed that the ass pinch prank was a social experiment so it's not like he hasn't shown us that he will lie to get out of situations before. We've also seen him think that pinching women's butt is something to laugh about. Again, why are people putting their trust in this guy?
Also, for the girls not going to the police, aren't the majority of the allegations sexual harassment rather than actual rape? Most women don't really go to the cops over sexual harassment sadly since it will be extremely hard to prove.

[ClipClap]

From 0:18-0:45, Pewdiepie refers to the Sam Pepper situation about YouTube pranks.



It made me laugh although I know it shouldn't have.

[BloopersTuesday]

I wonder if he has some sort of relationship with Dylan past friendship...?

[beetlejuice666]

I know I'm late on this but I'm still a bit new to gg so I'm just exploring threads right now!!
And Sam Pepper just needs to get off the internet completely like this whole "rebuilding myself" thing will not erase his past, like at all. He effed up so bad. It's like putting tape on a cracked wall

[Cryptic]

Naaahh. As long as he can make easy youtube money he will be here. It's so pathetic seeing people suck up to him because of one lame ass apology that he probably spend months planning. Again there's nothing whatsoever suggesting that he behaves normal around women. He's blaming our suspections his on scripted ass pinch prank. Who the fuck cares if it's scripted? You still did it for entertainment and money you psycho. It's really weird that an anonymous girl is accusing you of rape when even bigger yotube guys ( No youtube boys besides you) have never had anyone accuse them of this.

[EST]

Irony is dead.

[youtube][/youtube]


+ He's so ignorant about why people get called out. How does he still have 2m+ subscribers? SMH.

[Guest]

And once again, I have to reiterate that while I am not a fan of Sam Pepper, I am even less of a fan of "rape culture" and the "listen and believe" narrative. As far as Sam Pepper is concerned, he didn't have to address the rumors at all if he didn't want to because it is not on him to prove his innocence... it is on the person making the claim of rape to prove it happened. That is called the burden of proof, and the onus does not exist on the person rejecting the claim. He's smarmy, he's a douche bag and even in his zeal to profess his innocence and clear his name, he exposed himself as being fake. But there is no proof he raped anyone.

This has happened to Tobuscus most recently, and apparently this "rape culture" is so bad that apparently Tumblr is where you go to report a crime, not the police because they're bad and won't believe you so why not crucify someone's reputation and credibility, because "Why would someone lie about rape?" Hell, I don't know... why did Calum McSwiggan lie about a hate crime? It happens... and as an LGBT individual and a liberal, it's scary seeing this kind of mob mentality gain credence among my fellow liberals.

[fleur-delis]

And once again, I have to reiterate that while I am not a fan of Sam Pepper, I am even less of a fan of "rape culture" and the "listen and believe" narrative. As far as Sam Pepper is concerned, he didn't have to address the rumors at all if he didn't want to because it is not on him to prove his innocence... it is on the person making the claim of rape to prove it happened. That is called the burden of proof, and the onus does not exist on the person rejecting the claim. He's smarmy, he's a douche bag and even in his zeal to profess his innocence and clear his name, he exposed himself as being fake. But there is no proof he raped anyone.

This has happened to Tobuscus most recently, and apparently this "rape culture" is so bad that apparently Tumblr is where you go to report a crime, not the police because they're bad and won't believe you so why not crucify someone's reputation and credibility, because "Why would someone lie about rape?" Hell, I don't know... why did Calum McSwiggan lie about a hate crime? It happens... and as an LGBT individual and a liberal, it's scary seeing this kind of mob mentality gain credence among my fellow liberals.

Clearly, you have no idea what 'rape culture' means because you're using it in the wrong context. It describes a society in which sexual assault is largely tolarated and accepted as normal - like most Western societies at the moment.

There are so many problems with 'inncoent until proven guilty' in the context of sexual assault as well, but we've been into that in this thread.

During the time that I've worked as a counsellor for women who have been sexually assaulted, I've had almost no cases where proof was available. Doesn't mean that they were lying (but I can't prove that they weren't). So should they have kept their mouth shut? They did, mostly, in all public spaces. No police involvement (i've had two cases where we did involve the police, that's it), sometimes not even the families. These brave women who have come forward via Tumblr etc deserve all the respect because it is never easy.

[o_O]

And once again, I have to reiterate that while I am not a fan of Sam Pepper, I am even less of a fan of "rape culture" and the "listen and believe" narrative. As far as Sam Pepper is concerned, he didn't have to address the rumors at all if he didn't want to because it is not on him to prove his innocence... it is on the person making the claim of rape to prove it happened. That is called the burden of proof, and the onus does not exist on the person rejecting the claim. He's smarmy, he's a douche bag and even in his zeal to profess his innocence and clear his name, he exposed himself as being fake. But there is no proof he raped anyone.

This has happened to Tobuscus most recently, and apparently this "rape culture" is so bad that apparently Tumblr is where you go to report a crime, not the police because they're bad and won't believe you so why not crucify someone's reputation and credibility, because "Why would someone lie about rape?" Hell, I don't know... why did Calum McSwiggan lie about a hate crime? It happens... and as an LGBT individual and a liberal, it's scary seeing this kind of mob mentality gain credence among my fellow liberals.

Clearly, you have no idea what 'rape culture' means because you're using it in the wrong context. It describes a society in which sexual assault is largely tolarated and accepted as normal - like most Western societies at the moment.

There are so many problems with 'inncoent until proven guilty' in the context of sexual assault as well, but we've been into that in this thread.

During the time that I've worked as a counsellor for women who have been sexually assaulted, I've had almost no cases where proof was available. Doesn't mean that they were lying (but I can't prove that they weren't). So should they have kept their mouth shut? They did, mostly, in all public spaces. No police involvement (i've had two cases where we did involve the police, that's it), sometimes not even the families. These brave women who have come forward via Tumblr etc deserve all the respect because it is never easy.

I'm truly at a loss for those who don't understand what rape culture actually is. Thank you, fleur-delis for saying what you have. It couldn't have been better put.

[Guest]

And once again, I have to reiterate that while I am not a fan of Sam Pepper, I am even less of a fan of "rape culture" and the "listen and believe" narrative. As far as Sam Pepper is concerned, he didn't have to address the rumors at all if he didn't want to because it is not on him to prove his innocence... it is on the person making the claim of rape to prove it happened. That is called the burden of proof, and the onus does not exist on the person rejecting the claim. He's smarmy, he's a douche bag and even in his zeal to profess his innocence and clear his name, he exposed himself as being fake. But there is no proof he raped anyone.

This has happened to Tobuscus most recently, and apparently this "rape culture" is so bad that apparently Tumblr is where you go to report a crime, not the police because they're bad and won't believe you so why not crucify someone's reputation and credibility, because "Why would someone lie about rape?" Hell, I don't know... why did Calum McSwiggan lie about a hate crime? It happens... and as an LGBT individual and a liberal, it's scary seeing this kind of mob mentality gain credence among my fellow liberals.

Clearly, you have no idea what 'rape culture' means because you're using it in the wrong context. It describes a society in which sexual assault is largely tolarated and accepted as normal - like most Western societies at the moment.

There are so many problems with 'inncoent until proven guilty' in the context of sexual assault as well, but we've been into that in this thread.

During the time that I've worked as a counsellor for women who have been sexually assaulted, I've had almost no cases where proof was available. Doesn't mean that they were lying (but I can't prove that they weren't). So should they have kept their mouth shut? They did, mostly, in all public spaces. No police involvement (i've had two cases where we did involve the police, that's it), sometimes not even the families. These brave women who have come forward via Tumblr etc deserve all the respect because it is never easy.

Where in western society is rape seen as acceptable? You point it out to me and show me the pervasive culture surrounding it... because this is just hysterical paranoia BS. Western society abhors rape... you'll be hard pressed to find any mainstream movement or group or ideology that accepts and tolerates rape, so please shut that nonsense up. Instead if applauding Tumblr posts, we should be encouraging rape victims -- and it's not just women FYI -- to report their attacks as soon as possible, not to be afraid of the police or to fear scrutiny or questions, because skepticism is healthy... skepticism is how you get to the truth. So you can try turning it around all you want, but let you have your way, all you need to convict someone is a story because "listen and believe" is the narrative. Not facts or evidence. Sorry, but if there is no evidence, you cannot say with certainty that a rape occurred, so doubt is valid.

They don't deserve praise for coming forward on Tumblr... their stories should be investigated and scrutinized, like April Eff and Tobuscus, who she claims raped her. She said he raped her and provided no evidence for it except a story... he said he didn't rape her, and provided nothing but a video saying he didn't do it. So who do you believe? Meanwhile, the onus is not on him to prove he didn't rape her... she's making the claim. But if he's saying he didn't do it, why not listen and believe in that instance?

[Guest]

And FYI, I'm not defending Sam Pepper or Tobuscus... I'm defend the legal system, because apparently a lot of you don't seem to care how it works, and want to usurp the legal process and hang someone out to dry based on the accusation alone. Sorry, fleur-delis, but your post was dangerously ignorant and indicative of how you think subjective experiences trump objectivity.

But, I am REALLY itching for you to give me an example of ANY western society that tolerates rape or treats it as normal. I'll check back in.

[ClipClap]

http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/03/exa ... e-culture/

Or, more recently, the Stanford case:

“His life will never be the one that he dreamed about and worked so hard to achieve,” Dan A. Turner wrote in a letter arguing that his son should receive probation, not jail time. “That is a steep price to pay for 20 minutes of action out of his 20 plus years of life.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor ... -offender/

What you're talking about is mob mentality which is also wrong. People are being judged without proper evidence based on unedited claims. They should go to the police and shouldn't jeopardise a possible prosecution by posting about it on Tumblr.

[fleur-delis]

And FYI, I'm not defending Sam Pepper or Tobuscus... I'm defend the legal system, because apparently a lot of you don't seem to care how it works, and want to usurp the legal process and hang someone out to dry based on the accusation alone. Sorry, fleur-delis, but your post was dangerously ignorant and indicative of how you think subjective experiences trump objectivity.

But, I am REALLY itching for you to give me an example of ANY western society that tolerates rape or treats it as normal. I'll check back in.

I know how the legal system works, but in my opinion (and in that of many others), it has fatal flaws. The legal system doesn't work with sexual assault. The perpetrators are almost never prosecuted, there is no jail time, no justice. The 'victims' (not a fan of that word, but I'll use it to make it clear) are often retraumatized because interrogation methods that are commonly used just don't work in those cases, they make everything worse. That's why victims are right to fear going to the police in most cases. Physical evidence is the only way they'd ever sin in court, without it they don't stand a chance. In order for there to be physical evidence, they would have had to be able to tell someone what happened within a day or so - mostly not a possibility.

As for rape culture, I didn't say that a society tolerates rape but sexual assault. It is way to simple if you think of it as people accepting women being raped in the street lol. It's telling girls not to wear short skirts because they are asking for it, it's sexual assault in marriages that is looked at as 'marital rights' (not officially of course, this is not about laws), it's about how it's normal for guys to touch girls inappropriately in clubs without having to face consequences, it's sexist media images.. All that is rape culture and if you can't see that in today's Western societies, then I truly don't know anymore lol.

[Mimikyu]

Society in which rape is seen as 'acceptable' is not people screaming about how fantastic rape is, it never has been. It's microaggresions, subconscious things taught from childhood onward, things that lead people to feel ashamed about their assault, like it was their fault, ect ect. There's also the idea that men have been raised to feel entitled to women, among other things. But I won't start about that here, it's messy and not entirely useful to the discussion.
Instead of going 'omg just go to the police', you need to look at the reason people don't go in the first place. People make stories on public media because they feel shut down by police, their voices silenced. They're scared and they feel like even if they report it, nothing will happen. Above, Fleur has pretty much added everything else I can think of right now, lol.

Your idea of "innocent is proven guilty" is irrelevant if it only pertains to one side of the argument.
Criminalizing victims and having them jump through impossible flaming hoops to prove themselves? Not cool.

[Guest]

http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/03/exa ... e-culture/

Or, more recently, the Stanford case:

“His life will never be the one that he dreamed about and worked so hard to achieve,” Dan A. Turner wrote in a letter arguing that his son should receive probation, not jail time. “That is a steep price to pay for 20 minutes of action out of his 20 plus years of life.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor ... -offender/

What you're talking about is mob mentality which is also wrong. People are being judged without proper evidence based on unedited claims. They should go to the police and shouldn't jeopardise a possible prosecution by posting about it on Tumblr.

I'm sorry, but that article (which I have read before) is absolutely horrible. Those "examples" denote nothing about society overall and only pinpointed isolated incidents. And the Stanford rape case? Who applauded the verdict? Who applauded the judge making that asinine decision? Who applauded the judge talking about the girl's "chronological age"? NO ONE!!! Why would you link an article with refuted dated, and debunked numbers about rape cases? Furthermore, the Stanford rape case is recent.. this can't be the only example of actual "rape culture" you could find.

[Guest]

So basically "rape culture" is whatever you define to be rape culture? I'm done with this third wave feminist drivel. I asked for proof, you provided none. It's rhetoric like yours that will lead to more rapes, not less, because you vilify people who try to give tips on how to prevent being a victim of sexual assault (because apparently that's blaming the victim) and think we should "teach men not to rape" as if MEN don't already it's wrong to rape someone, including the ones that rape.

Society in which rape is seen as 'acceptable' is not people screaming about how fantastic rape is, it never has been. It's microaggresions, subconscious things taught from childhood onward, things that lead people to feel ashamed about their assault, like it was their fault, ect ect. There's also the idea that men have been raised to feel entitled to women, among other things. But I won't start about that here, it's messy and not entirely useful to the discussion.
Instead of going 'omg just go to the police', you need to look at the reason people don't go in the first place. People make stories on public media because they feel shut down by police, their voices silenced. They're scared and they feel like even if they report it, nothing will happen. Above, Fleur has pretty much added everything else I can think of right now, lol.

Your idea of "innocent is proven guilty" is irrelevant if it only pertains to one side of the argument.
Criminalizing victims and having them jump through impossible flaming hoops to prove themselves? Not cool.

And this is precisely what I mean. "Listen and believe", "Poliece are bad", "Microaggressions" (Don't even care... how vague can you be? What "microagressions"? That's just open-ended). What men have been raised to feel entitled to women? This is garbage!!! You want to combat a real rape culture? Go to the middle east!! Look over at Cologne, Germany, and the thousands of women assaulted by refugees. Cliterectomies going on in Africa and the middle east. The fact that women are subjugated and regarded as second class citizens in Saudi Arabia. THAT'S rape culture. You're just a bunch of whiny people looking for victimhood for your first world existence. And ban me from this stupid thread and page for all I care, because this is just ridiculous and dangerous drivel.

I'm so glad the majority of western women are turned off by feminism.

[fleur-delis]

I don't even know why we bother to argue with you, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, especially that 'thousands of women have been assaulted by refugees in Cologne' bullshit. I've been involved in the cases and the propaganda surrounding it is just horrific, used by right-wing extremists to support their cahse. There have been a ton of incidents, some of them by refugees, but also others - Germans - like at every major festival. The Oktoberfest, for example, covers up every year that tons of women are assaulted by drunk men who feel like 'it's just a bit of fun' and they 'were asking for it' by wearing short dresses - the traditional clothing in Bavaria.
Rape chlture is everywhere around us and refusing to acknowledge that is the problem right there, that's why we still have to deal with that.

The feminist movement is actually pretty big, with lots of male allies, too. Not sure where you are getting from that the majority of women is against it lol

[ElizabethMarks]

Unbelievable, why would anyone be glad that there are people who have misunderstood feminism and are against it. Feminism is a great and incredibly needed movement, who wouldn't want everyone to be equal, who wouldn't want people to throw away stupid societal expectations which just hurt men and women.