#YesAllWomen

[Emerald]

What are your thoughts on the #YesAllWomen hashtag? I honestly think this is great for women and men to speak out. Write your thoughts, post videos responses that you like or dislike, etc.

[WhatsThePoint]

While the intent behind it is good, it's yet another movement that has been taken by the extremist(and the extremist seem to be taking over more and more) who try to apply it to the majority. I've long stopped associating myself as a feminist because of things like this, because so many act like a majority of people are degrading, and this is just another example of it.

It's a quote like this, taken from a tweet listed on an article about this "movement"

Sure #NotAllMen are misogynists and rapists. That's not the point. The point is that #YesAllWomen live in fear of the ones that are.

That seriously bothers me. Living in fear is a choice. Rape happens. Murder happens. Mugging happens. etc, etc, etc. Can't stop it, can't control it. A "hashtag" on twitter about it doesn't stop anything either. The people who do those kind of things, male and female, are just evil people, and they don't give a damn what some people are saying on twitter. It's common sense that no one wants to be raped, mugged, etc. It has nothing to do with equality, yet so many try to tie it in to that despite it making 0 sense.

Another quote that bothers me:

The anger we have for assaults on us are expected to have both volume control & expiration dates. "Aren't you over it yet?" #YesAllWomen

Yes, you are expected to get over it. Life is going to move on with or without you, and if you want it to go on without you, at least cease blaming everyone else in the world for what one person did. It's such an ass backwards way of going about things and leads to a life of nothing but unreasonable hatred. I was raped at the age of 15, and some of the best advice I ever received was from my mother who told me it was okay to grieve, but it was not something I could hold against everyone else(which I was starting to do after the rape occurred), and the only person who deserved any blame at all was the rapist. Without that advice I'm not sure I would have ever met or at least settled down with the wonderful man I'm with today. I could have gone on a life of hating everyone and everything, but thankfully my mother saved me from that.

There was a time when feminism was about equality. It's turned in to something for people to use to just bitch and falsely accuse so many people of doing wrong. Feminism used to be a respected movement. It's turned in to a laughing stock. And no, it's not because of the non-feminists. It's because of the feminists.

[HattieChaos]

Something I've noticed recently is that British feminism has a lot less of the "crazies" than US feminism. I know that sounds like a huge generalisation, but if you go onto feminist websites based in the US, like xoJane, you'll see a lot of "extremist" thinking. UK feminist sites like the Vagenda and Feminist Times are a lot more well thought-out and intelligent. For this reason, I haven't yet given up on the movement.

Also, feminism was never really a respected movement. There was a time when the majority agreed with what it stood for, in terms of voting rights and so on, but it was still looked down on even then.

I actually like this hashtag because I do think it makes it's point well, though the hashtag itself is a generalization. You know a hashtag is decent when Neil Gaiman tweets about it though!

In response to "living in fear is a choice", I thought it was pretty clear that they mean that it's unfair that women have to take all these precautions because of the rate at which it happens. Unless you deny that we live in a rape culture, of course it's a gender issue. As long as there are people that think the way Elliot Rodger did, and the way the people that handled the Steubenville case did, we will live in a misogynistic rape culture, and yes, that's a gender issue. Most people disagree with rape, ofc, but there is also an overwhelming number of people that hold harmful opinions, like "her skirt is too short, so she asked for it". These people make up our juries.

In response to the "get over it" thing, I don't think they meant it like that. They meant that we're expected to get over our anger about how much this happens. You can't just say "meh, it happens" because (especially in the US) rape rates are very high, beyond a "normal" level. The current way courts deal with it is shocking as well. We are not arguing that we shouldn't get over our individual rapes and assaults and move on, we're arguing that we should maintain anger that it's happening on such a wide scale and that even the law system won't treat it properly.

All of this being said, I am also displeased with the feminist movement, especially the online (and inevitably US-centric) version. UK feminism tends to formulate itself into actual campaigns and causes, like the No More Page 3 campaign and the Campaign 4 Consent, two brilliant topics in the UK. Of course there are also US feminist causes, but for the most part, that movement just likes to group together and make a lot of noise. That is a problem, I totally agree. However, I haven't given up on us yet. Some forms of feminism do work, and this really is a case of the internet amplifying the extremist version. It's up to time to tell if the movement can recover from the damage caused.

[BellaJane]

I just hate this idea that every time a woman leaves the house we're supposedly living in fear of being raped by every man that walks past us on the streets. 9 times out of 10, I feel no fear whatsoever in leaving my house or walking alone down the street or when a man approaches me in public. I think it's unfair and judgmental to assume that every man you encounter is going to rape you. Honestly...even when I've been cornered by creepy guys in the middle of the night in the middle of the city I've never thought "oh my God he's going to rape me." I've thought that creepy people I've encountered --both male and female-- could possibly murder me, but my mind has never gone directly to "I'm going to get raped." I wonder, do the rest of you feel like you're going to be raped every time you walk out your house? With the popularity of movements like this I almost feel like there's something wrong with me for not considering my chances of being raped every time I leave the house..

[dazzle]

Honestly, I feel like most people here are completely missing the point of this.

[lacrymosa]

It's amazing that people are managing to complain about this.

[gizcorn]

If that's in regard to me. I'm talking about things like this as a whole, not this particular hashtag. I believe things like this foster a culture of inactivity, people feel less inclined to help and actually make a difference in their community because they can just sit at home and type things away, to them it's the same result. If everyone who uses hashtags like this actually went out and tried to benefit women and erase the patriarchal society so common in the West, we'd move a lot quicker than making a statement online with #YesAllWomen.

[CoralCat]

I agree with some of it, although many are extreme and acting as if women never do anything bad to men.

Also kinda related, but lots of people are saying it's offenseive to say the guy killed the people because he had a mental illness, apparently that's offensive because not all mentally ill people are like that (obviously they're not, just a very small percentage of them go on murdering sprees) but somehow it's ok to say he did it because all men are assholes who feel entitled to sex?
No mentally sane person would go on a murder spree.

But I do agree with many things and I like the related men tag (I think it's all #allmencan or something?)

[BellaJane]

If I'm the one "missing the point," please realize that my post was in response to WhatsThePoint and the quote about all women living in fear of men who are misogynists and rapists. It was not directed at this "movement" itself, but at those who take this hashtag in THAT direction.

But if you still feel like we're "missing the point," by all means feel free to explain that to us.

[HattieChaos]

If I'm the one "missing the point," please realize that my post was in response to WhatsThePoint and the quote about all women living in fear of men who are misogynists and rapists. It was not directed at this "movement" itself, but at those who take this hashtag in THAT direction.

But if you still feel like we're "missing the point," by all means feel free to explain that to us.

In response to "living in fear is a choice", I thought it was pretty clear that they mean that it's unfair that women have to take all these precautions because of the rate at which it happens. Unless you deny that we live in a rape culture, of course it's a gender issue. As long as there are people that think the way Elliot Rodger did, and the way the people that handled the Steubenville case did, we will live in a misogynistic rape culture, and yes, that's a gender issue. Most people disagree with rape, ofc, but there is also an overwhelming number of people that hold harmful opinions, like "her skirt is too short, so she asked for it". These people make up our juries.

I think that taking the whole living-in-fear thing to mean that all feminists are scared every time they go out is almost as ridiculous as thinking that all men are like Elliot Rodger (which, by the way, no one does). The #yesallwomen thing is supposed to respond to people yelling "not all men", yet people are still saying it in response. I think the mistake lies in putting the word "all" before women, people will take any excuse.

[dazzle]

But if you still feel like we're "missing the point," by all means feel free to explain that to us.

You are, and no, I won't.

[Sunnies]

I, personally, like the idea of the hashtag. Even if it's "just a hashtag" at least it gives men/women a chance to share their thoughts or personal experiences.

And I think it's really sad when people don't understand the true definition of a feminist. Feminism IS about equality! Maybe the reason why people think it has changed is because they are categorizing it wrong. They see "men hating" women as feminism now or this "It's turned in to something for people to use to just bitch and falsely accuse so many people of doing wrong" as feminism, which is not what it is at all...

[Emerald]

GRRRRRRRRRR

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I hope these men are never in a relationship. They don't deserve anyone. If they are in one, as wife or girlfriend I would be freaked out and upset by their comments.

[BellaJane]

But if you still feel like we're "missing the point," by all means feel free to explain that to us.

You are, and no, I won't.

That's incredibly mature. You're irrelevant. Have a lovely day.

In response to "living in fear is a choice", I thought it was pretty clear that they mean that it's unfair that women have to take all these precautions because of the rate at which it happens. Unless you deny that we live in a rape culture, of course it's a gender issue. As long as there are people that think the way Elliot Rodger did, and the way the people that handled the Steubenville case did, we will live in a misogynistic rape culture, and yes, that's a gender issue. Most people disagree with rape, ofc, but there is also an overwhelming number of people that hold harmful opinions, like "her skirt is too short, so she asked for it". These people make up our juries.

I think that taking the whole living-in-fear thing to mean that all feminists are scared every time they go out is almost as ridiculous as thinking that all men are like Elliot Rodger (which, by the way, no one does). The #yesallwomen thing is supposed to respond to people yelling "not all men", yet people are still saying it in response. I think the mistake lies in putting the word "all" before women, people will take any excuse. [/quote]

Okay maybe I should have quoted the EXACT passage that I was responding to. Apologies, I figured since my post was directly under the post that I was responding to that people would understand what I was criticizing. Clearly I was mistaken, so let me clear this up and that'll be it for me.

I never said it was in reference to all feminists or all women. What you are saying is exactly what I was initially stating in my response to the quote posted by WhatsThePoint (I assume taken from a twitter account?) that "all women live in fear" of men because they might be rapists. My irritation wasn't actually in reference to the word "all." It wasn't even in reference to the hashtag itself. It was a response ONLY to the quote which used the hashtag and to others who share that viewpoint. I never said I hated the movement or the hashtag or feminism or women's rights or the movement against rape culture. I said I hated this ridiculous idea that people are tossing around where we're all supposedly living in fear of men every time we leave the house. I hate that, while these women are saying that they know all men aren't rapists, they're still assuming that every man they come across on a day to day basis IS a rapist. I hate that they're taking an idea that's supposed to be a positive message and making it negative. And I also hate this idea that we should be afraid, or that we need to be afraid, like we're just supposed to accept that women are "weaker" and men are "stronger" and the only thing we can do is be afraid of what they will do to us if we're alone. I think that's an atrocious way for people to think. Again, let me note that this is not in reference to everyone, but rather solely in reference to those women, and men, like the one quoted by WhatsThePoint who claim that all women live in fear, and should live in fear, because there are some men out there who may be rapists. I find that viewpoint very unhealthy and very unfair to both men AND women. That's all I have to say about it.

[Emerald]

Here's a video from CNN.

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[dazzle]

But if you still feel like we're "missing the point," by all means feel free to explain that to us.

You are, and no, I won't.

That's incredibly mature. You're irrelevant. Have a lovely day.

You just called me irrelevant (whatever that has to do with anything anyway) because I wasn't willing to explain something to you and you have the nerve to call other people immature?

[HattieChaos]

My irritation wasn't actually in reference to the word "all." It wasn't even in reference to the hashtag itself. It was a response ONLY to the quote which used the hashtag and to others who share that viewpoint. I never said I hated the movement or the hashtag or feminism or women's rights or the movement against rape culture. I said I hated this ridiculous idea that people are tossing around where we're all supposedly living in fear of men every time we leave the house. I hate that, while these women are saying that they know all men aren't rapists, they're still assuming that every man they come across on a day to day basis IS a rapist. I hate that they're taking an idea that's supposed to be a positive message and making it negative. And I also hate this idea that we should be afraid, or that we need to be afraid, like we're just supposed to accept that women are "weaker" and men are "stronger" and the only thing we can do is be afraid of what they will do to us if we're alone. I think that's an atrocious way for people to think. Again, let me note that this is not in reference to everyone, but rather solely in reference to those women, and men, like the one quoted by WhatsThePoint who claim that all women live in fear, and should live in fear, because there are some men out there who may be rapists. I find that viewpoint very unhealthy and very unfair to both men AND women. That's all I have to say about it.

I'm genuinely not meaning to be rude but you do seem to be missing the point. They are not at all trying to say that we should all be scared, or that all women are scared, they're trying to say that it's unfair that all women have at some point in their lives been told to take precautions and that it's unfair that we have essentially been told to be that scared. According to society, if we don't take the right precautions (aka being scared of every man we meet) then we didn't do enough to prevent what happens - the hashtag is trying to say that yes all women have been told that in some form. They're not saying "yes all women are scared of men", they're saying "yes all women have been told at some point to be scared of men" and then giving examples of how they have reacted to that, like gripping keys while walking home, not walking out at night alone, etc. They are not saying that we should think that way, quite the contrary, they are arguing that it should not be this way.

I know there are also examples like the M&M post going around now which do further what you're saying though, and I completely agree with you in response to that. The M&M post is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen.